Skip to main content

Topic: race wars (Read 3159 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: race wars
Reply #45
I feel ya!

But race and enemy sieges are cheap as fucking shit right now, you are looking at a cost of 70-80k for a hamlet siege! yet there are still no race wars. No one is interested, pure and simple. They made those changes with race wars in mind, it's done nothing to the political landscape.

The changes you propose, will also do nothing but make the game worse, especially in the short term. They might of worked with the launch population and at the start of the game, but not now, when we are running on close to life support.

  • SomeBK
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: race wars
Reply #46
I like how these guys currently playing say the vcps are fine yet fail to understand why so many newbs quit the first week when they'd be gathering just outside of chillborne. It was only recently that they changed the village areas to only being lawless 30 min before and after it went live.

I also find it amusing that select people in here are crying for race wars yet they zerg people of their own race at villages and if they don't have the numbers advantage, they just mount up and run while waiting out the rogue timer.

Anyone crying for race wars who is happy with the current village mechanics should have every post taken with a grain of salt. You're the reason the game is currently in the shape it's in
Fair enough ill be there, Actually can we do it Thurs
(ive been lugging boxes of books all morning from a collection I bought and a little beat)

Re: race wars
Reply #47
At this point, I'd just be happy for the focus not to be on VCP's AGAIN. As though they are the be all to all Darkfall's PVP system.

Give DIFFERENT content.

Re: race wars
Reply #48
I feel ya!

But race and enemy sieges are cheap as fucking shit right now, you are looking at a cost of 70-80k for a hamlet siege! yet there are still no race wars. No one is interested, pure and simple. They made those changes with race wars in mind, it's done nothing to the political landscape.

The changes you propose, will also do nothing but make the game worse, especially in the short term. They might of worked with the launch population and at the start of the game, but not now, when we are running on close to life support.
It is not true that there are still no race wars. In open world same race players do not kill each other (in general). This creates a completely different "feel" of darkfall. Finally. Blue players cooperate on mob spawns, fight together, res each other.

This is race wars too. Race wars are not only battles between race enemies, race wars are also same race players working together because there is outside threat.

But I'm not surprised you don't even feel that race wars are a thing, if all you do is fight same race players at vcps. And this is a problem we are talking about here.

Very good example for @Ub3rgames to witness how their efforts to introduce race wars are negated by what's going on in villages. I'm sure your perception that there are still no race wars is shared by others, who participate in daily same race slaughter at vcps.
  • Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:02:30 pm by wildNothing

  • MKH
  • [*][*][*]
Re: race wars
Reply #49
OK, so one problem emerged - if villages were changed to race objective and lawless areas in them were removed, there would be less pvp as not in every village you would be able to find "enemies". This problem I've been mentioning since the beginning of the discussion (even in first post of the thread).

BUT is this really true?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

TO SUM IT UP - I'm not sure any more that "there would be less pvp" argument is a honest one. There would be less of mindless pvp, less FFA pvp without consequences - and consequences are an important part here, as there is a difference between meaningless pvp and pvp with consequences. After the change you could still have as much pvp as now - game would not stop you in any way. But consequences would be there. To be able to remain blue while slaughtering all racial allies at vcps is a big flaw in world design in race wars oriented game.

Also after the change clans with less pvp experience would have a chance at villages finally. As they would work with race alliance, and not always get rolled by Epoch for example. So there is a chance there would actually be more people at villages then now. Now some don't even bother, as they have zero chances as a clan (because of numbers and/or skill).

Well our  clan has been all over map at VCPs and in a lot of them most participants are Alfars and I would imagine if they now change it race tied there would be even less coming to them since it really would be a alfat zerg against other race. I think villages should only be changed when they get more pvp content in and they can revamp VCP system. Atm would literally kill the last resort of pvp.

And haven't really felt any bad blood between race members after VCP. I've farmed dungeons multiple times with guys I've just fought with at VCP and we have been ressing each other and heal and cooperated all around. I think villages could change down the line but atm I do not support putting dev time on them. There are more urgent things to be added before VCPs and quick change to VCPs like putting them just to be lawfull area and only races would fight over would kill the last some what sure source for pvp.
  • Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:49:36 pm by MKH
Viil Taja

Re: race wars
Reply #50
putting them just to be lawfull area and only races would fight over would kill last some what sure source for pvp.
I have no clue why you are so sure of what will happen if we change the vcp feature. What we can be sure of though is that CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION KILLS PVP.

Most of weaker/smaller clans are completely removed from pvp possibility at villages, as they can't compete (because of skill or numbers). In my opinion there would be much more people (and pvp) at villages if anyone could come and fight alongside his race, no matter the number of online clan members or their pvp skill.

Currently villages are not entry level pvp. They are slaughters where strongest clans kill everyone else no matter the race. Many players do not even bother to go any more. Changing vcps to racial objectives would make them truly entry level pvp objectives. Everyone online could come, and fight alongside other participants from same race alliance.
  • Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:05:58 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #51
putting them just to be lawfull area and only races would fight over would kill last some what sure source for pvp.
I have no clue why you are so sure of what will happen if we change the vcp feature. What we can be sure of though is that CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION KILLS PVP.

Most of weaker/smaller clans are completely removed from pvp possibility at villages, as they can't compete (because of skill or numbers). In my opinion there would be much more people (and pvp) at villages if anyone could come and fight alongside his race, no matter the number of online clan members or their pvp skill.

Currently villages are not entry level pvp. They are slaughters where strongest clans kill everyone else no matter the race. Many players do not even bother to go any more. Changing vcps to racial objectives would make them truly entry level pvp objectives. Everyone online could come, and fight alongside other participants from same race alliance.
Totaly agree with that. Just get rid of that rogue status and we just need to find the perfect reward. Personally I would like small buff on RNG to the winning race. Nothing about buffing stats or skills that gives advantage on pvp though.

Re: race wars
Reply #52
putting them just to be lawfull area and only races would fight over would kill last some what sure source for pvp.
I have no clue why you are so sure of what will happen if we change the vcp feature. What we can be sure of though is that CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION KILLS PVP.

Most of weaker/smaller clans are completely removed from pvp possibility at villages, as they can't compete (because of skill or numbers). In my opinion there would be much more people (and pvp) at villages if anyone could come and fight alongside his race, no matter the number of online clan members or their pvp skill.

Currently villages are not entry level pvp. They are slaughters where strongest clans kill everyone else no matter the race. Many players do not even bother to go any more. Changing vcps to racial objectives would make them truly entry level pvp objectives. Everyone online could come, and fight alongside other participants from same race alliance.
Totaly agree with that. Just get rid of that rogue status and we just need to find the perfect reward. Personally I would like small buff on RNG to the winning race. Nothing about buffing stats or skills that gives advantage on pvp though.
or simply this:
https://forums.darkfallnewdawn.com/index.php/topic,9747.msg155143.html#msg155143

Re: race wars
Reply #53
Race/Factional VCP won't work the way villages are located. Once more racial objectives are in place VCP will become less important thus this whole thing will be less of an issue. I don't mind village located at racial borders becomes faction based. Just need a new name for those villages.

Re: race wars
Reply #54
Race/Factional VCP won't work the way villages are located. Once more racial objectives are in place VCP will become less important thus this whole thing will be less of an issue. I don't mind village located at racial borders becomes faction based. Just need a new name for those villages.
Can you give an example of what would be wrong? As I can't see the problem with their location and potential change to race objective.

  • SomeBK
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: race wars
Reply #55
Race/Factional VCP won't work the way villages are located. Once more racial objectives are in place VCP will become less important thus this whole thing will be less of an issue. I don't mind village located at racial borders becomes faction based. Just need a new name for those villages.
Can you give an example of what would be wrong? As I can't see the problem with their location and potential change to race objective.
No, he can't. Literally the easiest way to offset the location of a captured racial enemy village is to just up the reward for capturing it.

For example, you cap ashatan and you're dwarf or orc or any of the other non Alfar races, you get a bigger reward than an Alfar would, same as humans/elf/dwarf capping chillborne. Aracs rewards are whatever the baseline would be all around

It's either that or just let the current vcp percentages dictate the highs and lows when if comes to dishing out the rewards but just make those percentages have a bigger impact on reward
Fair enough ill be there, Actually can we do it Thurs
(ive been lugging boxes of books all morning from a collection I bought and a little beat)

Re: race wars
Reply #56
Making VCP racial is something we're open to do, even though it is not planned at this point.
We would rather not spend more development time on VCP, but we get the notion of negative interactions they can cause.

The way we see and designed them, VCPs are like the "official sport" of Agon.
A form of jousting that is shared by all cultures since the Chaldean took over most of the world. Imagine what kind of bloodsports we'd have in the real world if death was only temporary.
Design wise, it serves as an outlet to channel the bloodlust of the playerbase, leaving most of the game "safer".
For now it serves its purpose well enough.

Tough, we agree that a racial alternative might open up some room for smaller clans or individuals.
That's not a guarantee, and it would be redundant with warfronts, but it could potentially be positive.
However, it could also lead to negative interactions. It would require a complete change of reward framework.
That dead weight/semi afk player is getting rewards from your effort, and worse, his presence is reducing your gains.

Which is worse? Having a friendly competition/rivalry with other players or be weighted down and have nothing you can do about?
We think the later is worse, as a feeling of unfairness generally creates the most negativity.

In conclusion, it isn't a closed debate, we're open to it and encourage the discussion to continue with our added points.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: race wars
Reply #57
Making VCP racial is something we're open to do, even though it is not planned at this point.
We would rather not spend more development time on VCP, but we get the notion of negative interactions they can cause.

The way we see and designed them, VCPs are like the "official sport" of Agon.
A form of jousting that is shared by all cultures since the Chaldean took over most of the world. Imagine what kind of bloodsports we'd have in the real world if death was only temporary.
Design wise, it serves as an outlet to channel the bloodlust of the playerbase, leaving most of the game "safer".
For now it serves its purpose well enough.

Tough, we agree that a racial alternative might open up some room for smaller clans or individuals.
That's not a guarantee, and it would be redundant with warfronts, but it could potentially be positive.
However, it could also lead to negative interactions. It would require a complete change of reward framework.
That dead weight/semi afk player is getting rewards from your effort, and worse, his presence is reducing your gains.

Which is worse? Having a friendly competition/rivalry with other players or be weighted down and have nothing you can do about?
We think the later is worse, as a feeling of unfairness generally creates the most negativity.

In conclusion, it isn't a closed debate, we're open to it and encourage the discussion to continue with our added points.

Honestly, until we have more of a clue to what warfronts will actually be there is no way to say one way or the other as to if VCPs would even need to be changed.

Re: race wars
Reply #58
Making VCP racial is something we're open to do, even though it is not planned at this point.
We would rather not spend more development time on VCP, but we get the notion of negative interactions they can cause.

The way we see and designed them, VCPs are like the "official sport" of Agon.
A form of jousting that is shared by all cultures since the Chaldean took over most of the world. Imagine what kind of bloodsports we'd have in the real world if death was only temporary.
Design wise, it serves as an outlet to channel the bloodlust of the playerbase, leaving most of the game "safer".
For now it serves its purpose well enough.

Tough, we agree that a racial alternative might open up some room for smaller clans or individuals.
That's not a guarantee, and it would be redundant with warfronts, but it could potentially be positive.
However, it could also lead to negative interactions. It would require a complete change of reward framework.
That dead weight/semi afk player is getting rewards from your effort, and worse, his presence is reducing your gains.

Which is worse? Having a friendly competition/rivalry with other players or be weighted down and have nothing you can do about?
We think the later is worse, as a feeling of unfairness generally creates the most negativity.

In conclusion, it isn't a closed debate, we're open to it and encourage the discussion to continue with our added points.

All good points, and I think most would agree VCPs would be fine as is IF there was other existing avenues of conflict that revolve around racial alliances and that meditation from VCPs wasn't seen as the primary source for supporting player holdings.

A recurring problem with your approach to designing DnD is you seem to expect your player base to behave based on what will be, rather than what currently is in game. This has led to something of a fiasco when it comes to player alignment, because many players will only base their choices and actions on what is, not what will be months away.  If you want the racial alliance warfare to be a primary focus of your game, with blue players cooperating then that's how you need to have the game now, not 6 months from now. Also, (and this is from someone with no alignment hits) if you can't manifest that racial alliance warfare game for several months, the members of the community asking for an alignment reset have a strong case, that you should seriously consider giving the reset once the game functions alongside how you expect most players to behave.

Re: race wars
Reply #59
Making VCP racial is something we're open to do, even though it is not planned at this point.
We would rather not spend more development time on VCP, but we get the notion of negative interactions they can cause.

The way we see and designed them, VCPs are like the "official sport" of Agon.
A form of jousting that is shared by all cultures since the Chaldean took over most of the world. Imagine what kind of bloodsports we'd have in the real world if death was only temporary.
Design wise, it serves as an outlet to channel the bloodlust of the playerbase, leaving most of the game "safer".
For now it serves its purpose well enough.

Tough, we agree that a racial alternative might open up some room for smaller clans or individuals.
That's not a guarantee, and it would be redundant with warfronts, but it could potentially be positive.
However, it could also lead to negative interactions. It would require a complete change of reward framework.
That dead weight/semi afk player is getting rewards from your effort, and worse, his presence is reducing your gains.

Which is worse? Having a friendly competition/rivalry with other players or be weighted down and have nothing you can do about?
We think the later is worse, as a feeling of unfairness generally creates the most negativity.

In conclusion, it isn't a closed debate, we're open to it and encourage the discussion to continue with our added points.

All good points, and I think most would agree VCPs would be fine as is IF there was other existing avenues of conflict that revolve around racial alliances and that meditation from VCPs wasn't seen as the primary source for supporting player holdings.

A recurring problem with your approach to designing DnD is you seem to expect your player base to behave based on what will be, rather than what currently is in game. This has led to something of a fiasco when it comes to player alignment, because many players will only base their choices and actions on what is, not what will be months away.  If you want the racial alliance warfare to be a primary focus of your game, with blue players cooperating then that's how you need to have the game now, not 6 months from now. Also, (and this is from someone with no alignment hits) if you can't manifest that racial alliance warfare game for several months, the members of the community asking for an alignment reset have a strong case, that you should seriously consider giving the reset once the game functions alongside how you expect most players to behave.


Being another player without any alignment hits I also agree that if they cant get the mechanics in to make races meaningful in a short period of time then give them their alignment reset now and those that cant help but be red will be red again anyway and those that really want to be blue will stay blue.

just charge the gold for the church (x2?) but not the time
  • Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 02:36:03 am by Mycke