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Topic: race wars (Read 1751 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: race wars
Reply #15
Quick examples of how stuff could work:

Each village has its area of influence AoI. Each gives a specific bonus, applying to the whole continuous AoI (certain villages being the only "link" between two non continuous areas for example).

Villages inside racial areas could provide 10% increase in something. PvE related mostly. Harvesting speed. Skin yield. Skillups. Reg conservation chance. Capping several could give an area with like 10% harvesting, 20% skin yield, 30% reg conservation.

Villages between racial areas could give more related PvP bonuses, but"peripheral" PvP related. Like 10% asset for bonus within the RoI (pré siège village planning ?).10% increased missile speed. No thing like "fireball now decaps your mom" direct player buff. Could even have villages give food duration buffs.

Sea villages giving 10% boat speed.

The bonuses only apply to blue members of the racial alliances while they are in the AoI.


The main thing being: cap a village, but your ACTIVITY between villages is what brings you rewards. And get a strategical option to put a blow to enemy races efficiency by fighting in their area.

Dfuw AoI system was good, it even included cities which would work here also somewhat since the game is supposed to be more localized. It was bland and not meaningful enough to make people care though.

Disclaimers: numbers mostly pulled from between buttcheeks.
Two major problems I see with this approach (which in general is not a bad twist to vcp role).

1. No incentive in influencing a territory you are never on. This drastically reduces interest in most if not almost all villages. Especially if it's cumulative only when connected (as you suggest). With no other rewards most will not bother.
2. Increased frustration when such buffs influence your local area and timers are sliding, making you unable to control it in any way (villages activate for weeks in off-hours now).

Re: race wars
Reply #16
Even if you do not play on the territory, if the village provides a connected AoI to the one you play on, you would get the cumulative bonus. And taking it from the enemy would deprive them off their bonus. Although granted, this would work better if only the villages at AoI "borders" would go live in a player-controlled fashion with what could be mini objectives. Such as what dfuw had with sea towers at the end (3 mini towers to down to unlock the main sea tower 30min later). That would be the racial front and player controlled AoI disputes (put a potential lock after cap or whatever... Planetside2 does this well). And to avoid massive overnight turn of AoI, could put a 20h CD before being able to cap a newly exposed village.

Player Holdings could also be wound into that. But I think the major priority is full getting away from timer based, alt influenced crap. Like villages as they are (and title progression, fuck that too). Hell there is a ton of stuff that could be better and motivate actual you know... Race wars.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:17:10 pm by Asdrael

Re: race wars
Reply #17
I agree with OP.  Village rewards should go to individuals of the winning racial faction in the immediate area of the VCP.  It should not be a clan based reward.  It should not give a benefit to anybody in the racial alliance that did not participate in the capture either.  The rewards should remain as Gold, Meditation Points, and Rare Mats(Ores only now, but Snowhide, Demon Silk, etc should be included in reward table).  Keep the percentage based increase of rewards received if the same faction captures the VCP over and over.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:28:14 pm by ohnothatguy

Re: race wars
Reply #18
(gonna copy paste a response from before and add a little here...)
Villages reward individual clans. They are a welcome chaotic mess of crossing the lines and working with enemies  to fight bigger forces.

About rewarding an entire alliance or them all joining one big clan for Max rewards:
There is a catch to rewarding an entire alliance, it just promotes too much nutcup.
Sure the existing system encourages merging into a zerg, but the clans don't actually want that and instead try to share meds.
Also, merging often comes at a heavy price in roster activity. If two clans of 10 active each merge, you don't end up with 20 active. Expect to actually end up with about 14 because members will stop logging in.
I really hope people read this before merging...


The assumed concept behind racial warfronts is that there is no reward in killing blue same racial clans. Let's see how that turns out.

Re: race wars
Reply #19
I agree with OP.  Village rewards should go to individuals of the winning racial faction in the immediate area of the VCP.  It should not be a clan based reward.  It should not give a benefit to anybody in the racial alliance that did not participate in the capture either.  The rewards should remain as Gold, Meditation Points, and Rare Mats(Ores only now, but Snowhide, Demon Silk, etc should be included in reward table).  Keep the percentage based increase of rewards received if the same faction captures the VCP over and over.
So basically what we have now but we remove lawless area completely and show factions (race alliances) on vcp and not clans. I like this. And not much has to change I guess.

But what about ARAC clans?
EDIT: meh, wait, that's easy, ARAC can be shown as a clan on vcp. So faction vs other factions vs ARAC clans.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:01:37 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #20
The assumed concept behind racial warfronts is that there is no reward in killing blue same racial clans. Let's see how that turns out.
What do you mean by "there is no reward in killing blue same racial clans". We are talking about game with full loot here. And currently no one is blue at vcps, but gray.

About rewarding an entire alliance or them all joining one big clan for Max rewards:
No one says anything about merging clans here. Actually there would be zero reason for merging clans (in vcp capture context) if race alliance was rewarded for vcp capture.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:02:30 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #21
All versions of Darkfall, imho, have failed in part because they're pointless FPS gankboxes with grind and the vast majority of players get tired of the banality.  They realize after a month or so that this is all stupid and they might as well just go play a regular FPS where they get to hit the spacebar and respawn with all their equipment again.

Hell if i can agree more with anything about DF

Re: race wars
Reply #22
If you made VCPs flip on an 8 hour timer, and had them only attackable by enemy races, then you'd have a winner. eg timer goes live for X minutes, can be attacked by enemy race and defended by racial "owner". Rewards dished out to winning group.

That's a simple example with no detail, but you get the idea.
yeah, but the devil's in the details. To whom should the reward go? To all race alliance, no matter if they were present? Or to present clans only? Should it be a percentage determined by numbers? What if some clans place naked alts there and do not fight at all?

And what is most important - what if attackers or defenders do not show up at all? It will strip participants of PvP as they obviously would not be able to fight each other if lawless area was changed into race objective. And we don't have a lot of content in the game.. It's not as easy as it seems.
You'd probably have to think outside the square for rewards. I'm thinking maybe a racial bonus should be the reward. Something like mobs and dungeon loot multipliers. This would turn VCPs into a racial objective and encourage racial allies to fight for each other for a race wide bonus.

Re: race wars
Reply #23
I agree with OP.  Village rewards should go to individuals of the winning racial faction in the immediate area of the VCP.  It should not be a clan based reward.  It should not give a benefit to anybody in the racial alliance that did not participate in the capture either.  The rewards should remain as Gold, Meditation Points, and Rare Mats(Ores only now, but Snowhide, Demon Silk, etc should be included in reward table).  Keep the percentage based increase of rewards received if the same faction captures the VCP over and over.
So basically what we have now but we remove lawless area completely and show factions (race alliances) on vcp and not clans. I like this. And not much has to change I guess.

But what about ARAC clans?
EDIT: meh, wait, that's easy, ARAC can be shown as a clan on vcp. So faction vs other factions vs ARAC clans.

This, and the level of effort to make this happen shouldn't be to substantial.

Re: race wars
Reply #24
Wasting time with this discussion no?

Didn't Uber already say they have no plans to tie villages into race wars? And that they like them being
 the "entry" level pvp for everyone.

Pretty sure I'm right there.

Re: race wars
Reply #25
Wasting time with this discussion no?

Didn't Uber already say they have no plans to tie villages into race wars? And that they like them being
 the "entry" level pvp for everyone.

Pretty sure I'm right there.


Though you are correct that doesn't mean Ub3r is correct in their idea, I have to admit after considering it all, that tying villages to race alliances instead of clans might be a better way to reinforce the races and those that have stated the intra racial conflict at vcps causes too much same race conflict make a good point.

Im not saying its better or worse, just that it seems to have enough merit to be worth discussing seriously.

Re: race wars
Reply #26
Where we live blue clans already work together as a racial alliance to keep reds away from VCP's, and we work out how to share the rewards. I believe this is working as intended, and actually is compatible with some of the suggestions that have been made... just happened because of the alignment system.

Re: race wars
Reply #27
Wasting time with this discussion no?

Didn't Uber already say they have no plans to tie villages into race wars? And that they like them being
 the "entry" level pvp for everyone.

Pretty sure I'm right there.


But they're not entry level PvP.  You need to be in a specific clan or clan alliance who are capable of doing VCPs (large enough or with really good PvPers) or you'll be attacked and then you'll see still those same players that killed you in your faction at the bank again or elsewhere, blue, and unattackable without penalty to you.

This situation fundamentally undermines race war fidelity; it cheapens the the game again more toward the FPS-kill-whatever mentality instead of an RPG/lore one.

There might be a few blue clans that don't attack the same faction now at a VCP (regardless temp grey status), but I bet it's still the exception.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 08:31:44 pm by Crisply Vague

Re: race wars
Reply #28
Didn't Uber already say they have no plans to tie villages into race wars? And that they like them being
 the "entry" level pvp for everyone.
To turn them into race alliance objectives would be making them truly "entry" level pvp for everyone. So I guess they would be OK with the change. Maybe they will come here and discuss it with community. Or maybe @Rigan you can link them talking about vcps not going to be race oriented.

Re: race wars
Reply #29
Didn't Uber already say they have no plans to tie villages into race wars? And that they like them being
 the "entry" level pvp for everyone.
To turn them into race alliance objectives would be making them truly "entry" level pvp for everyone. So I guess they would be OK with the change. Maybe they will come here and discuss it with community. Or maybe @Rigan you can link them talking about vcps not going to be race oriented.

"As we've always said: They will remain separated from the conquest meta game.
It is viewed as an outlet and entry level PvP. Entry level as in without barrier of entry, not as in noob friendly.
It is where you should go without mandatory diplomatic implications or any initial investment.
They are like the tourneys, wargames or jousting of Darkfall."

https://forums.darkfallnewdawn.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1;area=showposts;sa=messages;start=75

cba Looking for the other 2 or 3 posts about it, theres a length one with an indepth reasoning behind not linking it to races. You can go find :D