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Topic: Discussion: On Alts (Read 5069 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #30
The suggested changes sound good, Pls dont go for the most ideal and time consuming tho.

Darkfall needs content! We need the magic changes, the aligment changes to clans and more content in general. What about watchtowers and racial warfronts? Those are like the main selling point for this version, We need a reason to actually continue with the racial war cause if it stays as it is right now i dont see a reason to still be a blue clan in a month.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #31
Also harvesting/crafting tools should be existing again to help gold sink a bit. They shouldn't be craftable/droppabe and the only way to get them should be by bying from vendors (and they should be pretty expensive). That could stop those afk harvesting alts a bit.
But punish new players unfortunately.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #32
Alts sitting around ~7.5% which is what @Ub3rgames has been saying all along and is negligible. We have people here who have been claiming 30%-50% lol

Focus on the content.

When it comes to this particular topic I will take the word of those clans actively breaking the system over what Ub3r says.  While I was playing most everyone I knew in the largest Alfar clan there was at the time had an alt or even up to 5 - 7 alts. 

If alts were not so wide spread we wouldn't see these topics being brought up.  We wouldn't see 20 alts in one spawn so that >5 real players benefit from the mob scaling.

It doesn't matter what the actual percentage is... the fact is that alts are destroying the game because of poor design choices early on and now they are having to address it. 

  • SoethThoth
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Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #33
It doesn't matter what the actual percentage is

This guy was speculating 30% online were alts, not surprised you don't think the actual percentage matters.

                                                      And Ub3rgames said; It is the way it is, and it was. 8)

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #34
As a red payer who are looking for loot, 2 reasons I really don't have problems with alts.

1. More alts means more loot for me.
2. When I kill peoples alts, its not as traumatic for them as if I kill their single main, so I don't risk driving people away from the game.

Other reasons why Alts are good:
1. They help fund the game
2. Standing still, mining ore is a mindless task, it is not game play. People should have alts to do quests with or something while harvesting.

Other moments:
1. As population grows, the operation of alts will be limited because you cant put them afk all over the place.
2. The problem of using alts to trade loot from a red player is overrated, I have the opportunity to do it, but I don't see the point as I can bank the loot myself and transport it to some chaos city for own usage or for black market trading in order to make black markets provide me with what I need. And frankly, I don't have any problems finding players who sell me weapons for wood.
3. Not sure if everyone remembers how it was in DF1 when people were afk macroing skills. It was awesome, a raid always provided a lot of easy targets with good loot (regents). After the change away from that meta, the cities appeared dead. Now, alts populate the game but not in such a broken way as the broken magic macro stuff did.

I think the restraining of VCP rewards is enough for now. If anything, make us able to recycle stuff into meditation points, it does not have to be a lot, just a little bit, enough to make people get rid of stockpiles from leveling crafting. Being a dedicated crafter would  also be more rewarding then.
Maybe crafting skills should level up slower, right now I think its too easy to level up a crafting alt on the side.

I am all in favor of creating content, we have yet to see how the economy works with full population and skilled crafters. Economy is already starting to work, I bet some crafting alts will go out of business when the players discover that it cost less to buy stuff. Then only dedicated crafters will be left.

Anyway, stuff that attracts new players should be prioritized as I think some problems will go away as population rise.
The racial wars sound like a good thing that will fill the gap between big clan game play and starter city game play, but dont forget to give them some unique rewards.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #35
I also have an alt but I only use him for gathering.  I tried scaling a mob spawn but it really wasnt worth it and really made maybe a little more than I would have solo.  I dont mind alts for gathering as you can still kill them and loot everything off of them.  The other use I have for my alt is processing the resources so I can craft staves on my main to sell on the market otherwise the other crafting skills I picked on him are gimped because I dont have the time to sink into my main character and my alt as well. 
I think if someone is willing to pay extra for an account to alt on so be it but they shouldnt be used to exploit the game.  For me its still painful when my my alt has been gathering and some rando ork or wolf skewers him with their meat as the time I was gathering on him was a loss.  Perhaps the account system could include a sub account as the alt for the same or reduced price but that sub account is tagged as such and will have zero effect on mob scaling or village capture and are barred from dungeons.  Though I would much prefer to see more content before alt issues are dealt with in full.

  • Niburu
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Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #36
- The first changes coming are to the markets.
A portion of the alt pressure comes from markets not providing enough. From the way listings get sold very fast, we interpret that there is too much demand and not enough supply for goods.
Given the feedback received, it was a mixture of risk-aversion and inconvenience, because we know that the output of crafters outside of large clans is sufficient but still hoarded. We actually observed a drastic drop in new listings after we announced these changes.
We're trying to get this in for this weeks patch to get markets back in gear.

Markets need 2 things:
- Buy order (just like in UW if you remember)
- Regional link (Race areas for example)

Fully disagree on linked racials but when you sell an item it should show you the usual average price
Darkfall is the best experience on PC with my pants not unzipped.

  • SoethThoth
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #37
Fully disagree on linked racials but when you sell an item it should show you the usual average price

I think the starter towns could be linked to the capital for the NPE and it wouldn't have any detrimental effects on the local economy.

I don't mind that they are not linked but I think for new players it would help when the first market they saw was pretty substantial.

                                                      And Ub3rgames said; It is the way it is, and it was. 8)

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #38
I think spawn scaling should not work depending on how many are engaged with the spawn.

It should rather be scaling as you kill the mobs.
Killing faster should scale faster.
Disengaging with the spawn, should make the scaling start over.
It should leave time in between spawning to gather loot and heal up.
It should spawn in waves, more and more difficult as it goes on, until the point where players have to disengage with the spawn.

This solution would also bring much needed excitement to mob farming as it would  encourage people to work together in order to se how far they get.

Can you imagine? Starting with brittle skeletons, 2 hours later a clan have farmed the spawn so much that an undead dragon spawns
This would actually be both new content and addressing alts at the same time...
  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 03:01:18 pm by Cyborgmuppet

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #39
Good discussion. I also see the main issue presently to be VCP's- a cap with 30 or so players gives 10K med points, which is a lot, and likely too much. I cap with our alliance, so I don't see how much gold is produced.

Some cap on spawn scaling would likely be useful as well.

I have alts, but find them somewhat tedious to use aside from semi-afk harvesting. I don't have the time to move them to VCP's etc, and tbh I may not log an alt account on for a week or more.

As others have said, this is a minor problem and it is more important to work on the roadmap.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #40
"The current scaling value could be seen as the ideal to reach, should you be efficient enough, with some margin of error.
The faster you wipe a spawn, the closer you'll be to the loot scaled at your current level."

Won't this just give the perception to people who are not at all efficient that the mob loot completely sucks? When someone opens a grave they should feel pretty happy with what they see. They are unlikely to dismiss the loot in the grave and instead be adding up the loot per hour and weighing up if it is worth it given their skill level and have seen potential increases throughout the hour where they have been more efficient giving them extra goals to work towards.....

In other words, people don't care if one group kills a mob in 5 mins even though it took their own group 10 mins as long as the loot in the grave is the same loot. If I read your system right then the people who take 10 mins will have only half the loot in a grave to look at yet took them twice as long. I don't think humans work very well this way around.

Further to this your ideas on totems I see as potentially just giving even greater advantages to large clans and elite groups.
  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 03:25:13 pm by Oriphus
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #41
Its not the loot that should scale.
Its the difficulty of the spawning mob that should scale.
And of course a brittle skeleton should not drop the same loot as a bone dragon.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #42
The world is filled with spawns. It is a rare thing to find a spawn that you can, at any given moment, with your current group (a small one), in your current gear, farm so that you have minimal downtime. People usually want to farm some mob for specific drop, to get a sense of progression, and waiting for respawn is really annoying.

Alternative currently is:
-alternate between spawns - often not practicable or worth it
-downgear (you do not want to encourage this, and it is only worth it for skilling up)
-bring much more players - especially higher tier mobs become in effect infinite when reaching certain threshold, and become viable for farming in some cases (see flesh golem - solo not viable, in large group a valid target).
-bring alts

For instance, for farming thick leather, if I go solo, with my crafting alt, with decent bow and 30 archery, I have 50% downtime on the closeby spawn. Add my main, and it is only 20%. Much more enjoyable experience.

IMO good spawn where you are not waiting should be a norm. In a localized world, you do not really want bad spawns due to downtime. There is already a lot of difference in spawns with 1) location 2) terrain (tactical considerations) 3) distance from your base 4) enemy activity.

Spawns should either scale with speed of killing, or keep it as it is but make it easy to spawn scale. Via items, or self buffs.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #43
I think something that can be done right now with little development is to allow only one client to run at a time.  Most people are using one PC with multiple clients.  You will still have some people that will run with 2+ PCs but I think that would be minimal. 

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #44
"And that's the question: Would you rather have us implement reasons to fight and sink resources, or address alts?"

Add content over adding barriers to address ALTs

Trying to hard ban ALTS is going to be an arms race, you plug one hole, the ALTS will find another way.

Address root causes (VCP, Spawn scaling and a better market) like you have outlined and the ALT problem will dwindle

Biggest issue is forum moderation and the toxic community