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Topic: Discussion: On Alts (Read 5070 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #15
Also harvesting/crafting tools should be existing again to help gold sink a bit. They shouldn't be craftable/droppabe and the only way to get them should be by bying from vendors (and they should be pretty expensive). That could stop those afk harvesting alts a bit.

I dont need further gold sinks, i dont spam cap villages, im not part of a big clan, what i have ive earned already harder way than most ever will.
Seriously already now when list an item 2nd time on a marketplace for a longer time, any possible profit margin will become questionable. Why is this a good design? Not that crafting tools back would really noticably hurt me, but its a matter of princimple.

The real gold sink, the one that could actually sink anything wold be having reasons to wardec.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #16
Quite frankly, I think the fixed "per player" view on income coming from PvP related activities need to mostly go. It should be based on local activity and not fixed.

Villages currently are a zergfest/altfest and way more valuable and rewarding than sieges. If rewards from caping villages had to do with the activity they are linked to (such as number and quality of houses built with rent paid, which had to do with the location quality of the village) were factors in the reward from capping, you would still get high reward villages for large groups, and lower rewards area for smaller groups. Then split the rewards. This will would scale with server population, local activity and local village value.

For PvE, add Regen to mobs and lower their hp pool + have them more rewarding for small parties and a bit less for large groups for loot.

Harvesting will remain a big issue as long as it is an afk activity. As said countless time, make people empty nodes fast, make them move around (active gameplay), and make empty nodes look different.

Active gameplay > multi-boxing.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #17
Main fix for PvE spawn scaling with alts is, in my opinion, adding HP regeneration based on monster level. Something like +15HP/second per monster level would be a good start. Everyone should provide (at least) 20 DPS IMO

I would much rather see mobs get harder to kill than mobs themselves hitting for cap damage.

Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #18
Glad to see you addressing these issues.

 Let's hope the shills and yes-men don't ruin it and create an oversight.

- Adding health regen won't fix the problem. (alts still scale spawn)

Least development : most effect = some type of requirement of constant interaction with a mob spawn to remain scaled.

Most ideal = removal of alt scaling all together, and add in the totems as the only way to scale a spawn - get together with friends, drop a frenzy totem, and have a farming session. Would probably be a lot more work/balancing though.

  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 11:20:18 am by Seronys

This is DND, not any other iteration of DF. Everything is slower, and more local. It is the way it is.

  • Raap
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Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #19
Focus on spawn scaling changes, not just for alts, but also for general fun-factor improvements. The upcoming VCP changes will already serve a blow to alts, as moving them to villages and back again is very tedious, which is sort of like the Anti-Christ for us Alt2Win players (I suppose you can gank your own alt and loot the gold, though)... Ideally however, village loot scales based on conflict, which alts cannot defend themselves from unless protected by a massive zerg.

Crafting alts cannot be resolved unless you fundamentally change how titles work. I do not think you got the time for this.

Edit: Making mobs harder via more regen is adding more tedium. Please be more creative. PvE is slow enough as it is for melee due to having to reset fights to stat up all the time, yet ranged DPS can keep firing and barely notice such regen increases.
  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 11:33:00 am by Raap
Proud member of TD.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #20

The suggested changes are good but I wouldnt spend any more development time than necessary. Game needs content.


Guys who are going to run alts are going to do so for what ever slight advantage they get no matter what you do. IP lock- hot spot off a phone, client lock- any number of the shell VPN programs bypass this. It's just too easy with today's technology, concentrate on getting content

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #21
The problem is not that people have alts, the problem is that it provides any benefit at all. Benefiting so greatly from having a character be AFK for 95% of the time just means the game rewards passive gameplay way, way too much; that should be obvious to anyone.

I appreciate the communication though.
Flopfall: New Dawn. Please buy 6 accounts.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #22
If you want to control several characters at the same time, you need several computers. This way you avoid the issues of pure IP locks, [...]
Or you could use VMware. And bypass IP locks with a VPN.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #23
Or you could use VMware. And bypass IP locks with a VPN.

Increasing tediousness by a lot have been shown to really limit the amount of multi-boxing though. It is not perfect by any mean, but it has a good efficiency for low time invested in implementing the solution.

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #24
- The first changes coming are to the markets.
A portion of the alt pressure comes from markets not providing enough. From the way listings get sold very fast, we interpret that there is too much demand and not enough supply for goods.
Given the feedback received, it was a mixture of risk-aversion and inconvenience, because we know that the output of crafters outside of large clans is sufficient but still hoarded. We actually observed a drastic drop in new listings after we announced these changes.
We're trying to get this in for this weeks patch to get markets back in gear.

Markets need 2 things:
- Buy order (just like in UW if you remember)
- Regional link (Race areas for example)
IGN: "Eilis Traee"
However, you have to take into account why we are introducing local banking.
In New Dawn, its main purpose is to be a convenience feature.
"Things just got worse."

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #25
When it comes to alts there are a lot of "ideals" they could aim for to improve the situation... but in the real world Ub3r doesn't have the time or resources to tackle this situation quickly so they must prioritize what they can.

The #1 problem with alts right now is how spawn and VCP scaling functions.

They need to come up with a scaling method for spawns that can better determine how a player is "active".  There are multiple ways to approach the situation... but they need to choose a direction and run with it even if it ends up being a quick fix that requires later revision.  Every day this is delayed their economy is destroyed further... though sadly I think it is too late and the economy is fucked beyond repair without a complete server wipe.  Something they cannot do now that the game is out of in-dev.


Every single choice Ub3r makes in regards to design at this point has to include the conversation...

 "How does having an alt character affect our design?  What can we do to prevent alts from being too big of an advantage while at the same time realizing there is no way to remove all the benefits of having one or more?"

Something Ub3r failed to do at the start is now something they must take into account every single time they design a new system or mechanic in the game.  Is it annoying? Yes.  Is it sad they need to because human nature determines people will do whatever it takes to get ahead? Yes... but in game design it's what you need to do.  Expect the worst from people.

  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 12:48:39 pm by KevinDL

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #26
Following times just examples and should be adjusted to suit mob type (green / yellow etc..)

Mobs cleared in under 30 seconds should increase levels of spawn (faster the kill the faster the respawn)
Mobs cleared between 30 seconds and 2 minutes should stay same level
mobs not cleared before 2 mins plus should downgrade a level

Each level increase should increase difficulty greatly with more damage, more hp, more numbers and faster respawns with loot proportional to difficulty.
Above a large level difficulty on yellow and above mobs could even start to give clan meditation points.

I thought there was something like this when you first introduced spawn levels? It could be intense and a lot of fun, the harder you pushed the harder it got with team members dying frequently if unorganised yet your extra efforts could also be greatly rewarded (at least that is how it appeared to me at the time).

This allows players and groups to find a level of engagement that is suitable and enjoyable for them without alts being a factor at all. I don't really understand why you are worried about efficiency.

Mobs and farming in general has been pretty disappointing. Weak mobs with mostly uninteresting loot. Make mobs hard again! make bringing better equipment to farm mobs potentially more rewarding, make dying to mobs with a high level cause a large drop in durability, the higher level the mob the more durability loss. also increase difficulty enough with levels so that dying to mobs can become a thing again.

  • Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 03:41:40 pm by Oriphus
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #27
Alts and villages problem has no clean solution, as 5 man cap of village in the end of the world with 5 alts is not distinguishable from 10 man cap, but you are on the right direction.

Scaling via totem would be nice, or it could be done via 0, 1, 2, 3  and 4 spawn scaling self buff for the time being (no need to add any graphics etc.). IMO it should not be resource gated; having good spawn should be a default state, not a privilege.

Adding "make it harder" mechanics would eventually be cool but it is extremely hard to make so that people are not screwed by this (try to kill lvl35 forest golems which run away and regen while the rest of the spawn prevents you from attacking them)..

  • zakai
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Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #28
I suggested this before but villages should be changed to a siege style format. 

1) Require a clan to drop a siegestone (cap is 22-24 hrs later)
2) Reward the clan if they successful cap their villages (reward based upon how many siegestones they risked)
3) If they fail to cap the village, reward whatever guild caps the village

This makes it so the reward is based upon a risk of investment and activity.

  • SoethThoth
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Re: Discussion: On Alts
Reply #29
Alts sitting around ~7.5% which is what @Ub3rgames has been saying all along and is negligible. We have people here who have been claiming 30%-50% lol

Focus on the content.

                                                      And Ub3rgames said; It is the way it is, and it was. 8)