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Topic: What is the official view on RED players? (Read 972 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #15
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?

Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.

"Gotta put the master encryption code here..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=975oMBaK9gM

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #16
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?

Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.


 

That's literally what his post said.

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #17
If you're red reroll or live with the consequences. Not that they didnt warn you up front. You wanna be a bad guy, go be a bad guy to the 3-5 racial enemies. Winter is comming...

  • Nuyur
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #18
It doesnt matter what race your killing character is on if you use an alt to supply it.
Be an alfar killing dwarves, or a red dwarf.
You still get to restock right next to them with goods bought off of their market, selling their own shit back to them.

the problem isnt racial warfare (surprisingly). Its that alts get used to avoid the conditions that would make being red a hard choice.

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #19
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?


Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.


 

That's literally what his post said.

Hence the reason I clarify by typing no one is TRULY advocating. He is obviously just stating an opinion, not a definitive change that is going to implemented..
"Gotta put the master encryption code here..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=975oMBaK9gM

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #20
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #21
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.

This is exactly what I am addressing...
Why do people think that RED players should be penalized?
Isn't being kill on sight to everyone out there, not able to access the main market and not being able to access most banks enough penalty?

Seriously...
Penalizing RED players so harshly will only make sure that 100% of the red players are simply troll alts for the elite maxed out blue clans. There will be no space for the individuals or small groups of outlaws. Consequently removing all PVP and intrigues from the individual players and small clans, both blue and red, who don't take part in conquest.

Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them.

Of course DF could be a good game without the REDs, but then it should be told us in all honesty that DF is about conquest, and RED players are not welcome.


 



 

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #22
From the Game Info:

"
Choices and consequences

A character's alignment represents its standing with its racial faction.
All characters start being blue (positive alignment), and all negative actions towards allied players will result in losing alignment and becoming red.
On any loss of alignment, a character's track record is reset to zero, more than halving any quest rewards for multiple weeks.Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #23
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.

This is exactly what I am addressing...
Why do people think that RED players should be penalized?
Isn't being kill on sight to everyone out there, not able to access the main market and not being able to access most banks enough penalty?

Seriously...
Penalizing RED players so harshly will only make sure that 100% of the red players are simply troll alts for the elite maxed out blue clans. There will be no space for the individuals or small groups of outlaws. Consequently removing all PVP and intrigues from the individual players and small clans, both blue and red, who don't take part in conquest.

Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them.

Of course DF could be a good game without the REDs, but then it should be told us in all honesty that DF is about conquest, and RED players are not welcome.


 



 

I have no time for red players at all. There are plenty of enemies against your race who are red to you.

"Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them."

Players who are not your race are red, the above still happens. I want New Dawns Factional race wars to be a thing. If there are no meaningful penalties (as it is currently) there really isn't any factional warfare, just the same old clan warfare.
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #24
But penalizing the red characters don't remove the problem with blue alts, it simply makes it mandatory to have a blue alt.
Trading also does not solve it.
Destroying loot upon death only makes it less lucrative to be a honest criminal, making sure REDs are only alts of the elite who wants to grief without looting.
Barring meditation, only makes people grind their character to a certain level before going red. Again catering for the top clan elitists while the individual criminals who just want to steal some wood and sell it to someone cannot progress.

And to comment about the racial wars. They cannot ever become the peak of the game because there is never any prospect of a race winning over another. This does not allow for the important politics meta in DF.
Clan/alliance ward over cities must be the peak of the game while racial wars should be there to entertain players who want to do something else, besides creating own content by being a "honest" criminal.
Besides there is plenty of games like that, Look at Warhammer, while having good pvp mechanics, and "arranged pvp" they still failed.

Again, the problem is not the players who truly play as criminals.
The problem is the elite, fully developed clan players who either go red with a maxed out character, or create an alt, just to grief.
None of mentioned penalties can prevent them from doing so, and their not even interested in loot, so finding a way to make reds unable to trade with blue alts will not solve the problem.

Frankly, as a true criminal its more fun to be able to sell my loot on a market place or interact with a real player than to waste my time with a crafting/trading alt.
As a criminal I find the fun in the cat and mouse game, mostly being outnumbered, trying to avoid detection in order to gain good loot from someone who is not careful.

I wish there was a way to enforce 1 character per player. But as long as it cant, we have to live with some issues...
These issues are certainly not breaking the game. For my part, I think the only DFND lacks currently to be a success, is a healthy economy, revolving around equipment, not skillpoints,  making pvp mean something.
And I think the Devs are working on it as we speak...


 

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #25
From the Game Info:

"
...Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"

Except when you have a blue alt that does all your buying and selling for you, made especially easy with the shared local clan bank at a wilderness bank and/or the ability trade without alignment hit between red and blue players just outside the city limits.
Blue alts will be less of a factor when the ARAC changes take effect.
A Blue Alt will become grey, and while he will still be able to access a Clan Bank, he will not be able to access NPC Cities.
Even if he is not in an ARAC Clan, having a Red in your Clan, or be allied to an ARAC Clan will have the same effect.

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #26
From the Game Info:

"
...Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"

Except when you have a blue alt that does all your buying and selling for you, made especially easy with the shared local clan bank at a wilderness bank and/or the ability trade without alignment hit between red and blue players just outside the city limits.
Blue alts will be less of a factor when the ARAC changes take effect.
A Blue Alt will become grey, and while he will still be able to access a Clan Bank, he will not be able to access NPC Cities.
Even if he is not in an ARAC Clan, having a Red in your Clan, or be allied to an ARAC Clan will have the same effect.

Why would a blue alt need to be allied? Blue alts can just have a separate clan and ally no one, nothing prevents bank use and trading between two random clans at the same bank.
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #27

And to comment about the racial wars. They cannot ever become the peak of the game because there is never any prospect of a race winning over another. This does not allow for the important politics meta in DF.


If a race of orks and wolves fight for ownership of a holding over a race of Alfar there can most certainly be a winner (and this is before they introduce racial warfronts). For conquest it is not much different to clan v clan, however racial wars through warfronts could allow players who are not interested in joining large clans at the start of their journey to ease themselves into the game and potentially participate in medium / large scale pvp, it also can bring a new dimension to DF as a whole that all previous failed versions since 2009 have not had and that is the potential to bond players from different backdrops to instinctively protect their own race against THE enemy, this could help with player retention quite a lot. Current VCP work against these principals heavily, I would like to see a complete rework of VCP's following introduction of warfronts. Guess I can keep dreaming on that one though. 
  • Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 05:21:17 pm by Oriphus
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #28
make Reds not be allowed in clans.

Make reds not be able to trade blues.

Done.  Enjoy being criminal.

Want to push racial wars, well there you go.

Also make marketplaces outside towers in certain areas where you can force red players to go to play out of like bucs den or yew bank if you played uo.

Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Reply #29
make Reds not be allowed in clans.

Make reds not be able to trade blues.

Done.  Enjoy being criminal.

Want to push racial wars, well there you go.

Also make marketplaces outside towers in certain areas where you can force red players to go to play out of like bucs den or yew bank if you played uo.
Your ideas are literally the worst.
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