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Topic: Staff magnitude bugged? (Read 2096 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #60
Differance between deer staff and darkscepter is almost 2 times in AoE size and dmg drop....4dmg differance....100% bugged!
AoE of which spells? because on my r50 and r90 it didn't make any difference at all.
Maybe it works for field aoe, or maybe it works at high/max spell level...but even if that is the case, it is still stupid to have barely no effect until then and, then, all of a sudden double the aoe


Man i stil cant udnerstand how you testing anything.....Can you make a video? If i will not be too lazy, ill do one special for you today...

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #61


Man i stil cant udnerstand how you testing anything.....Can you make a video? If i will not be too lazy, ill do one special for you today...

It is not difficult...i also explained it....find a place on the ground, shoot, move the mouse a bit forward...shoot...and continue until you don't hit anymore with the faster staff.
Once you do, switch to medium and slow staff and.....you still don't hit.
Then move back until you start hitting with them again....switch to fast staff....and you hit with that too
--->
All staves have the exactly same AoE (and not only my tests confirmed that, but also nightblinger ones).
As we both said, maybe on very high level of spells, int and intensify, the AoE increase is there and is even noticeable, i have no reason to say you are lying on that, i believe you....the problem here is that, even if that is what happens at high levels, it does not (or it does it in a very minimal way, so minimal that you can't even notice it when trying) at lower levels....and that is plain stupid (or bugged).

At my skill/spell/int level i can see a difference between my begone done with a dawnstaff/fast staff/slow staff....the difference is already appreciable, so it has meaning in this case choosing between the 2...
The problem here is that meaningness is way too much related to what spell you are using and it is not an advantage/disavantage across the board for all spells you are using.....which, in turn, makes choosing slower spell dependenant only on if you are one of those using the few selected spells that are greatly affected by it (what if you don't have fire knockup/backs, necro blinds or whatever other spells are affected? You wouldn't have use for a slower staff)

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #62
magnitude has a linear correlation to damage.
the simplified formula is:

damage = k * staff_magnitude + d
the slope k is different for all kinds of spells.
the offset d includes the base damage, the bonus from spell level, school level, int and so on.
d is also different for all kinds of spells

i was too lazy to figure out k and d for all different spells during indev,

you are looking at low level staves so the d value is a lot more important than magnitude. once the magnitude values are a bit higher you will see bigger differences between a cobra staff and a corpsecaller

PS:
for a maxed character ball lightning has:
k = ~3.3
d = ~31.7
that means:
a cobra staff with 0.28 magnitude does ~32.6dmg
a corpsecaller with 1.61 magnitude does ~37 dmg

PPS:
those values are from december 2017 and only represent a maxed naked char without titles hitting a naked target. i don't know if ub3rgames changed anything with the damage formula since then.
  • Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 01:15:35 pm by nubnax
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #63
to add to the nuke radius discussion:
using a blackbolt and a darkheart to cast exploding charge. crosshair and target were not moved.
on a direct hit:
blackbolt 22.47dmg
darkheart 26.16dmg
difference: 3.67 dmg
on the splash damage:
blackbolt 6.63 dmg
darkheart 12.4 dmg
difference: 5.77
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

this shows that the aoe radius is very much affected by magnitude.
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #64
@nubnax thanks for your tests too...can you tell us what int/spell/school level you tested them at?
I will try again tonight with shards and mana blast again....but i definitely didn't have those kind of differences at all...so, either some spells is bugged or, again, the formula they use is not that good since it seems to become noticeable only under certain circumstances (aka only when you have high stats/spells)

P.s: can you try to do the same also with lighting strike and see if you have any aoe differencies with that too? cause, right now, it seems that aoe is affected only on r100 and field aoe
  • Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 01:47:47 pm by dariobrun

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #65
R50 AoE is too small to properly test, it'll be barely affected.

Field AoEs and R90/R100 spells is where you really feel the high staff magnitude come into effect.

PS Blame AV for having a different scaling formula for different spell categories.

Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #66
r50s are affected too. i don't have any hard numbers because lightning strike moves the target so it's not easy to test but i notice the difference when i duel with a darkheart or a blackbolt.
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #67
R50 AoE is too small to properly test, it'll be barely affected.
yes, it needs a fix
super fast casting speed VS extremely slow casting speed with a "barely" noticeable numerical benefit is "berely" balanced system : )

Field AoEs and R90/R100 spells is where you really feel the high staff magnitude come into effect.

is the field aoe that big casted by an end game slow staff, that the opponents can not run out before the second tick wave? If not then the marginal numerical values due to dmg will not force ppl to use the slow staff : (


Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #68
One thing to keep in mind is that once you have Spell Haste or a Haste enchant on your staff, difference in cast time between Slow and Fast staves drops significantly.

Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #69
One thing to keep in mind is that once you have Spell Haste or a Haste enchant on your staff, difference in cast time between Slow and Fast staves drops significantly.

Spell haste is modifier for staff speed, so +40 casting speed for slow staff will add less than +40 for fast staff....

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #70
One thing to keep in mind is that once you have Spell Haste or a Haste enchant on your staff, difference in cast time between Slow and Fast staves drops significantly.

Spell haste is modifier for staff speed, so +40 casting speed for slow staff will add less than +40 for fast staff....
I'm pretty sure the opposite is true.

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #71
magnitude has a linear correlation to damage.
the simplified formula is:

damage = k * staff_magnitude + d
the slope k is different for all kinds of spells.
the offset d includes the base damage, the bonus from spell level, school level, int and so on.
d is also different for all kinds of spells

i was too lazy to figure out k and d for all different spells during indev,

you are looking at low level staves so the d value is a lot more important than magnitude. once the magnitude values are a bit higher you will see bigger differences between a cobra staff and a corpsecaller

PS:
for a maxed character ball lightning has:
k = ~3.3
d = ~31.7
that means:
a cobra staff with 0.28 magnitude does ~32.6dmg
a corpsecaller with 1.61 magnitude does ~37 dmg

PPS:
those values are from december 2017 and only represent a maxed naked char without titles hitting a naked target. i don't know if ub3rgames changed anything with the damage formula since then.

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! A couple questions though. Does the 'spell magnitude' stats from robes/bone armor go into the 'd' variable of your formula. And does it affect aoe size as well? Not sure if you've tested this.

Also taking into account xp formulas it would appear the quickest way to grind spell levels would be to use the fastest blackbolt possible. Would you agree with this statement?

Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #72
magnitude has a linear correlation to damage.
the simplified formula is:

damage = k * staff_magnitude + d
the slope k is different for all kinds of spells.
the offset d includes the base damage, the bonus from spell level, school level, int and so on.
d is also different for all kinds of spells

i was too lazy to figure out k and d for all different spells during indev,

you are looking at low level staves so the d value is a lot more important than magnitude. once the magnitude values are a bit higher you will see bigger differences between a cobra staff and a corpsecaller

PS:
for a maxed character ball lightning has:
k = ~3.3
d = ~31.7
that means:
a cobra staff with 0.28 magnitude does ~32.6dmg
a corpsecaller with 1.61 magnitude does ~37 dmg

PPS:
those values are from december 2017 and only represent a maxed naked char without titles hitting a naked target. i don't know if ub3rgames changed anything with the damage formula since then.

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! A couple questions though. Does the 'spell magnitude' stats from robes/bone armor go into the 'd' variable of your formula. And does it affect aoe size as well? Not sure if you've tested this.

Also taking into account xp formulas it would appear the quickest way to grind spell levels would be to use the fastest blackbolt possible. Would you agree with this statement?

Magnitude is an equation that takes into account your int, archmage, spell level, intensify for school, armor traits, staff mag and encumbrance.

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #73
@Linc
the value from gear and title are multiplicative.
Dmg ... Damage value from staff, int, skills, spell level (see equation above)
Gear ... spell magnitude value from the trait on your robe/bone etc
Title ... modifier from title

final_dmg = dmg * (1+Gear/100) * (1+Title/100)

it does affact the aoe size as well.

to leveling:
the short answer is, no. use a slow staff.

only if you want to level your school you might want to take a blackbolt.
As soon as you want to level spells with cooldown the slightly faster casting speed is even less of a factor.
i maxed out every single spell in indev and i always use a robe and a slow staff when i level my magic.

the casting speed modifier from your robe and your title are multiplicative. this means a slow staff benefits more from it than a fast staff, same goes for hasten spells.
the casting time difference between a fast staff and a slow staff is smaller with hasten spells on and/or wearing a robe than when you compare them without the buff or the gear.

unfortunately there was a patch shortly before launch where they tweaked all the casting speeds so all my tested numbers are not up to date anymore.
i only updated the values for the medium staff in my detailed spell list.
all the tests i did about speed differences with the different staves with all kinds of spells and how hasten spells affects casting speed are all invalid now and i didn't have the time to redo them before indev was over.
  • Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:09:35 am by nubnax
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

  • XiaN
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Re: Staff magnitude bugged?
Reply #74
Hi,
i've read that during inDev you have changed how staff magnitude influences spell dmg and secondary effect in order to make medium and slow staves more useful, but i did some testing yesterday and, to me, it still looked like the magnitude had little to no impact on spells.

I tested shard on a robed friend:
-r20 medium 0.33 magnitue:  26.7 dmg
-r40 medium 0.44 magnitude: 27.2 dmg
-r40 fast 0.09 magnitue: 26.3 dmg

The small knock-up from shard seemed to be exactly the same too between the 3 staves....so is this intended that a 0.09 dmg staff does just 1 dmg less than a 0.44 magnitude staff??
It doesn't feel like, if these are the differences to be expected, it is worth to use anything but a fast staff, just like in original darkfall where only fast staves were used.

only thing i could imagine a slow staff beeing remotely useful is buffing. apart from that blackbolt/cobra all the way baby