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Topic: Discussion: Meditating on the near future (Read 8841 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #135
@Ub3rgames A+ communication, not even just how much but the extent of your thought process behind what you're writing about. You seem to have put a lot of thought into the changes you want to make and are passionate enough to defend your vision.

Minor request: a way to jump to next dev post in a thread?

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #136
Soooooo... back on topic.

Let's say the average joe plays 20 hours a week, 10 of which is used to level his toon. To keep things simple, let's assume those 10 hours include travel time, sorting the loot, etc, as well as the occasional death to PKers or enemies. Let's also assume that the guy plays a mix of solo and group action, and that most of the meditation points gained in the process go toward character progression. Based on this, I think the time required to level a given role should be the following:

Highly specialized role
Viable: 1 month
Potent: 3 months
Maxed: 9 months

Full hybrid
Viable: 1 year
Potent: 3 years
Maxed: 9 years

Now before you call me a crazy mofo, please read this. As we already know, a highly specialized role is a cumulation of titles that enhances a particular playstyle, at the cost of a number of skills and spells. Some will call it losing versatility, but in the end, the more specialized, the less skills you'll have at your disposal, and the less skills you'll have to grind before being viable. There is of course a number of roles in-between, resulting in various but proportional leveling times.

Secondly, in my example, I'm taking an average of 10 hours per week devoted to leveling, mostly PvE action. Myself, I'll probably play an average of 10 hours a week, and since I hate grinding and PvE in general, I'll probably spend less than half of it leveling my char. But I'm realistic and I know Darkfall is not build around people like myself. And based on my personal experience in DFO and UW, the average guy plays more than 20 hours a week. So let's see two different profiles and adjust the time.

First, let's take a look at the hardcore worker/student. The guy works full-time, but most of his leisure time is spent playing the game. His average is 50 hours per week, so 25 hours spent working on his char:

Highly specialized role
Viable: 2 weeks
Potent: 1 month
Maxed: 3 months and a half

Full hybrid
Viable: 5 months
Potent: 1 year and two months
Maxed: 3 years and a half

Secondly, the no-lifer, with an average of 100 hours week, so 50 hours spent on character progression:

Highly specialized role
Viable: 6 days
Potent: 2 weeks and a half
Maxed: 2 months

Full hybrid
Viable: 2 months and a half
Potent: 7 months
Maxed: 1 year and 9 months

Less than 2 years to be completely done with character progression. Well, for some, that's not enough. A simple way to make it even longer would be to keep the viable times as is, up the potent times a little bit, and significantly or drastically increase the maxed times, depending on if you want people to actually be able to max a toon or not.

More importantly, the rationale behind this is the following. You cannot balance the leveling time around casual players because hardcore gamers will get bored. You cannot balance leveling time around hardcore gamers because casuals won't even bother. But by using the title system, you can take the best of both worlds, and have something balanced. It's not perfect, but it's probably the best compromise you can think of.

Anyway, @Ub3rgames, to finally answer your question, because it's still not the case. If you want to talk about meditation only, the only thing that's left now is to find the appropriate ratio. If you want meditation to play a central role in the game, and it seems to me that it's clearly the case seeing the whole picture, I'd go for 1/3, 1/4 min. So a third of the gains are coming from meditation. It also makes sense if you want people to be able to level out of PvP activities only.

The reason why I went into details is because I think you cannot dissociate meditation from the active part of character progression. It is a global strategy, as opposed to disparate systems.
d3ron|βaxter

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #137
@heliumbox
Well, we have been working on this design for years now. Remember that we initially tried to get the license back in 2012 so we have a pretty clear vision of where we are going. We feel it is important to convey it to the players. for feedback, but also for them to know what they are buying into.

The jump to next dev post is a great idea. We'll see if it can be done when we can spare the resources on the forums again.

@d3axter
Thank you for the detailed answer. We agree on the logic that we can't balance around the casuals or the casuals only.
That is why we see so much value in the meditation system as a bridge between both worlds.

Through the meditation system, we can get the guys that can only play 10h a week to still feel they are progressing and have fun when they log in. Similarly, it is very important to reduce the power gap, to avoid that the guys that are viable after the first week don't completely crush the ones that get there after a month.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #138
Bumping this so that more people participate in the meditation discussion.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #139
meditation max points should be at 500,000 i do not see any reason to limit it to 100k.
on the higher tiers for stats meditation should be more powerful by double at rising stats from 50-100.
Ingame names
New Dawn: Kenshiro Ryu
Dragon Empire SG
Help defend the Humanlands! Join us!
Are you the Dragon Hero of Legends?

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #140
meditation max points should be at 500,000 i do not see any reason to limit it to 100k.
on the higher tiers for stats meditation should be more powerful by double at rising stats from 50-100.

This is an interesting idea that will work well with Infamy/patriotism and the meditation drain.
Brain storming ideas here:
The more meditation you have, the faster it is consumed, meaning it would grow faster.
with the way we are setting starter quests, new player would grow faster than average players. And average-advanced players would be encouraged in continuing to earn meditation to progress faster when offline, which means going out in dungeons or challenge quests.

PvP hotpsots, risk vs rewards, small but intense play sessions. This seems to check many boxes at first glance.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #141
As long as offline skilling is always significantly slower than online - otherwise no incentive to log in.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #142
As long as offline skilling is always significantly slower than online - otherwise no incentive to log in.

Yes of course. The issues currently are that meditation rate were left un touched to be balanced around the actual active leveling speed.
The topic of this discussion was to discuss a proposed leveling rate for meditation, and just discuss the whole concept as a whole.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #143
meditation max points should be at 500,000 i do not see any reason to limit it to 100k.
on the higher tiers for stats meditation should be more powerful by double at rising stats from 50-100.

This is an interesting idea that will work well with Infamy/patriotism and the meditation drain.
Brain storming ideas here:
The more meditation you have, the faster it is consumed, meaning it would grow faster.
with the way we are setting starter quests, new player would grow faster than average players. And average-advanced players would be encouraged in continuing to earn meditation to progress faster when offline, which means going out in dungeons or challenge quests.

PvP hotpsots, risk vs rewards, small but intense play sessions. This seems to check many boxes at first glance.

Also does killing mobs by itself reward any meditation points for every mob killed? IF not it should because it would help not to need to get quests just to get meditiation points.
Ingame names
New Dawn: Kenshiro Ryu
Dragon Empire SG
Help defend the Humanlands! Join us!
Are you the Dragon Hero of Legends?

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #144
bump

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #145
@heliumbox
Well, we have been working on this design for years now. Remember that we initially tried to get the license back in 2012 so we have a pretty clear vision of where we are going. We feel it is important to convey it to the players. for feedback, but also for them to know what they are buying into.

The jump to next dev post is a great idea. We'll see if it can be done when we can spare the resources on the forums again.

@d3axter
Thank you for the detailed answer. We agree on the logic that we can't balance around the casuals or the casuals only.
That is why we see so much value in the meditation system as a bridge between both worlds.

Through the meditation system, we can get the guys that can only play 10h a week to still feel they are progressing and have fun when they log in. Similarly, it is very important to reduce the power gap, to avoid that the guys that are viable after the first week don't completely crush the ones that get there after a month.

Re: Discussion: Meditating on the near future
Reply #146
Just let it die already.