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Topic: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap  (Read 6254 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #30
@donutkebab
Take a batch of let's say 100 new players. They will want to travel a bit and explore etc , leaving their initial spawn and banking point.

If they go a bit too far and end up dying ( still darkfall , so be it pve or pvp they can die easily ) , how many of them do you think will not even bother playing further once they realize ( without having planned it before because in reality NOONE will put even just a mount in every bank in the world and there will be one day where you'll respawn to one of them lost chaos bank ) the bank they just respawned at don't have any markets , any regs , any arrows , any mounts , all the basic stuff so they can go back to their initial point , hell at least just a mount ? That's what they are saying.

So sure most of us , when it happens sometimes , will not mind walking back to your filled bank or atleast somewhere with a market , even if it takes time ; but not everyone will find that "user-friendly" or "casual-friendly" or "not tedious" or whatever usual terms you're using in general for pretty much everything.

Thats what wildnothing and the other guy are saying , and no matter how you turn it and how much you can prepare yourself before , it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still here and exists.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #31
Have any of you actually played a game with local banking?

Fuck me, In Mortal when you die you turn into a ghost and have to run across the map back to a priest(normally a guild priest, esp if red) that will spawn you. Now mortals map isnt as big as df's (if you include both continents probs not a massive difference) but its the same concept.
Instant respawn at the nearest bank isnt that harsh, sure you might have to run a bit to a market for a mount but that shit is literally marked on your map. You guys are really over thinking the effects that local banking will have on the game.

Ill never forget my first time exploring into the jungle in MO as a noob, fucking miles away from my bank, and then having to navigate my way home, dead, with no map, was lost for hours.

Isnt that part of the fun of exploration??

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #32
Have any of you actually played a game with local banking?
Yes

Quote
rest of your post
And thats why you're here on these forums , ready to play , like the rest of us
That's not the case for many others who might try DnD and  who aren't that ready for systems like those where they'll end up at a bank and the only solution is to walk back to wherever they wanna go. All they will see is time lost for nothing and get bored

Which is pretty much the point of the discussion

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #33
@donutkebab
Take a batch of let's say 100 new players. They will want to travel a bit and explore etc , leaving their initial spawn and banking point.

If they go a bit too far and end up dying ( still darkfall , so be it pve or pvp they can die easily ) , how many of them do you think will not even bother playing further once they realize ( without having planned it before because in reality NOONE will put even just a mount in every bank in the world and there will be one day where you'll respawn to one of them lost chaos bank ) the bank they just respawned at don't have any markets , any regs , any arrows , any mounts , all the basic stuff so they can go back to their initial point , hell at least just a mount ? That's what they are saying.

So sure most of us , when it happens sometimes , will not mind walking back to your filled bank or atleast somewhere with a market , even if it takes time ; but not everyone will find that "user-friendly" or "casual-friendly" or "not tedious" or whatever usual terms you're using in general for pretty much everything.

Thats what wildnothing and the other guy are saying , and no matter how you turn it and how much you can prepare yourself before , it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still here and exists.
Oh yeah I know, you are right about the new players part, but the problem is just, what and how would you change this if you don't want to interfere with the teleportation and local banking?
That is something I tried to bring up, since the whole system is restrictive and changing just one part, could result in destroying it on a different part.

I tried to show how and why ub3rgames is changing it or how they want the system to work (quotes).
If you can prove the concept being user unfriendly, this does not mean that ub3rgames agrees, which is good, in my opinion, players should NOT be involved in the basic mechanics too much. As we can see, everyone has a different approach on things.

That ub3rgames is then at a risk if something does not work out because "population and/or player behavior", then they either fix it, which might be too late. But also does not mean that a well thought through system should not be tested under/in(?) real condition.
They should at least have let it be on inDev for at least 1-2 months though, too laze for that sadly.

Back to the problem and MY opinion:

Be able to chose a bank with gear: People will exploit it for traveling one-way after they delivered something (trade problematic, does not apply often, that is true, yet people with trade/travel alts might exploit this for easier trade deliveries since gold is global and dumped after the trade into the empty bank)

Be able to get gear delivered: People will exploit is to get things delivered, the higher the fee, the more can rich people get richer and the poor stay poor (far worse than first option)

Bindstones? Well, also defeats the local game play purpose.

A fee to respawn at x?

I agree, that many players will be turned off, I also said and see the huge risk of rage quit after death. The problem is just, which solutions are there to help such players out, without changing too much of game play?

That some markets will be empty is somewhat sure, depending on the regional loot changes after the apocalypse.
This could be changed IF you were able to see into other marketplaces just to see what is in over there where I plan to travel, which is a step of preparation and new players possibly would not do or know about....

The problem with missing NPCs to buy arrows and regs from should be dealt with anyways by placing additional NPCs next to every banking location who sell the basic needed things including armor and weapons (low rank obviously).

Anyways, I seem to be too optimistic(and biased) towards the whole local banking as I already played multiple games with such systems in place.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #34
Have any of you actually played a game with local banking?

....

Isnt that part of the fun of exploration??
Yup, Ultima Online, but this has also more options to travel around. Same death system as MO.
Eve Online for a tiny bit, not my kind of game.
Mortal Online and can absolutely agree with that the game feels just different, not only because of the lack ingame maps but also because it was just more penalizing, too much for many players.

The exploration part is something what not many people actually like I think. The "adventurers" are a rare breed, if people join because of pvp alone, DnD could be more boring to them than RoA.
But going further in time, I think DnD could work out way better as it has some promising big parts, especially the economy, which was always pretty broken and dull in DF.

But this is also why people like you and me are biased towards those changes as we already know and experienced them.
The concern about the frustration being too big is absolutely justified, but the problem is, a solution "in between" might be somewhat complicated if you want to exclude exploiting it(using against its purpose) or new players not knowing about it or not understand it once it pops up. Players nowadays are just not used to the old-style games.

Maybe build in more quests, information and/or tutorials towards this. The first quests do lead you very quickly towards other banks already, but you rarely die between the starter cities.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #35
Have any of you actually played a game with local banking?

Fuck me, In Mortal when you die you turn into a ghost and have to run across the map back to a priest(normally a guild priest, esp if red) that will spawn you. Now mortals map isnt as big as df's (if you include both continents probs not a massive difference) but its the same concept.
Instant respawn at the nearest bank isnt that harsh, sure you might have to run a bit to a market for a mount but that shit is literally marked on your map. You guys are really over thinking the effects that local banking will have on the game.

Ill never forget my first time exploring into the jungle in MO as a noob, fucking miles away from my bank, and then having to navigate my way home, dead, with no map, was lost for hours.

Isnt that part of the fun of exploration??

The two mechanics don't seem that comparable.

1) You do a single walk, invulnerable, to respawn (i assume you are invulnerbale while a ghost?)

2) You run a gauntlet of wild banck and choas stones back to home, while vulnerable and undefensible (naked). Possibly being bind camped at one or more of those respawn locations on the way and if there is any population almost certainly being killed numerous times, with no chance to defend yourself.

Like I said  a greifers wet dream to be honest!

As for the joy of exploration. It is only exploration once...the first time!
  • Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 03:14:00 pm by discombobulation

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #36
The two mechanics don't seem that comparable.

1) You do a single walk, invulnerable, to respawn (i assume you are invulnerbale while a ghost?)
In MO, UO and some other games you run from your corpse back to a priest/ankh/resurrection-place which are not always known and possibly far away.

At most of those places in the wild there is no bank (unless in a city obviously). So you have to travel as a low stat person, naked without a mount, back to a bank and then back to your corpse.
Different but also somewhat similar I think as the main problem is still the "banks(are local as well) need to have stuff you dumped in earlier".

2) You run a gauntlet of wild banck and choas stones back to home, while vulnerable and undefensible (naked). Possibly being bind camped at one or more of those respawn locations on the way and if there is any population almost certainly being killed numerous times, with no chance to defend yourself.

Like I said  a greifers wet dream to be honest!
This is also why there need to be somewhat of a timer where you are not losing anything(med points) by bindstone camping, so you have at least the chance to log out without losing anything else(I think that is planned but cant remember).

Griefing protection is planned but won't be in for launch iirc...which is also a bad idea and makes the release feel even more rushed. If you did not get bindstone camped at least once, you missed out on this lesson anyways! (this was a bit of a joke)

You can also spawn at a different bindstone, I highly doubt that there will be people everywhere, even RoA at it's first days was not packed everywhere. DnD seems not be made for convenience and quick travelling, more about slower game play and long-term planning, organizing and especially, cooperating with other people.

Solo-players (I am; but most likely won't stay) will have a real hardmode, especially if they choose to go the self sufficiant player killer route.



Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #37
Have any of you actually played a game with local banking?

Fuck me, In Mortal when you die you turn into a ghost and have to run across the map back to a priest(normally a guild priest, esp if red) that will spawn you. Now mortals map isnt as big as df's (if you include both continents probs not a massive difference) but its the same concept.
Instant respawn at the nearest bank isnt that harsh, sure you might have to run a bit to a market for a mount but that shit is literally marked on your map. You guys are really over thinking the effects that local banking will have on the game.

Ill never forget my first time exploring into the jungle in MO as a noob, fucking miles away from my bank, and then having to navigate my way home, dead, with no map, was lost for hours.

Isnt that part of the fun of exploration??

The two mechanics don't seem that comparable.

1) You do a single walk, invulnerable, to respawn (i assume you are invulnerbale while a ghost?)

2) You run a gauntlet of wild banck and choas stones back to home, while vulnerable and undefensible (naked). Possibly being bind camped at one or more of those respawn locations on the way and if there is any population almost certainly being killed numerous times, with no chance to defend yourself.

Like I said  a greifers wet dream to be honest!

As for the joy of exploration. It is only exploration once...the first time!

That used to be the case, however you can now be banished and stopped from rezzin while in ghost mode.

On the point of Bind Camping, I dont think it will be as bad as you think, especially on main land, as the amount of stones, banks etc and the actual range of spawning is quite large, gives people alot of directions to go to get away from such a situation.

@donutkebab I honestly dont see a way to ease someone into local banking, I guess Im being too positive thinking people might actually do a bit of basic research on core game mechanics before jumping in blindly XD.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #38
@donutkebab I honestly dont see a way to ease someone into local banking, I guess Im being too positive thinking people might actually do a bit of basic research on core game mechanics before jumping in blindly XD.
Well, yeah, many new players who did not experience what DF can offer them, most likely don't want to do research on so many topics to know about.

If they are confused, not excited about the game play for the first hours, maybe days AND then get slapped because they did not read through "the manual" they most likely won't bother with the game.

I needed several days until I decided to give DFO a chance and back then, the game (esp gfx, animations and features) were less "outdated" compared to today.

Creating useful guides (wiki, YT, forums) or being helpful in-game is an ungrateful job... (or was at least in the past)
I feel like there should be somewhat of a reward for good guide makers, player guides in-game etc to reward that, like a FUNHULK or similar .... ;)


Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #39
It's a bad argument because Ub3rgames implemented the respawn mechanic and soon-to-be local banking the worst way possible, with zero changes to chaos stones and Wilderness Banks.

You Guys should save your posts because its going to be a shit show till they move-add Wilderness Banks & Chaos stones. Example- elves raiding North into Mahirim lands, you're fucked. Only Wilderness Bank in Mahirim lands is on the northern border with the drwaves and the elves wilderness banks are basically right next to the NPC cities

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #40
@donutkebab
Take a batch of let's say 100 new players. They will want to travel a bit and explore etc , leaving their initial spawn and banking point.

If they go a bit too far and end up dying ( still darkfall , so be it pve or pvp they can die easily ) , how many of them do you think will not even bother playing further once they realize ( without having planned it before because in reality NOONE will put even just a mount in every bank in the world and there will be one day where you'll respawn to one of them lost chaos bank ) the bank they just respawned at don't have any markets , any regs , any arrows , any mounts , all the basic stuff so they can go back to their initial point , hell at least just a mount ? That's what they are saying.

So sure most of us , when it happens sometimes , will not mind walking back to your filled bank or atleast somewhere with a market , even if it takes time ; but not everyone will find that "user-friendly" or "casual-friendly" or "not tedious" or whatever usual terms you're using in general for pretty much everything.

Thats what wildnothing and the other guy are saying , and no matter how you turn it and how much you can prepare yourself before , it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still here and exists.
Oh yeah I know, you are right about the new players part, but the problem is just, what and how would you change this if you don't want to interfere with the teleportation and local banking?
That is something I tried to bring up, since the whole system is restrictive and changing just one part, could result in destroying it on a different part.

I tried to show how and why ub3rgames is changing it or how they want the system to work (quotes).
If you can prove the concept being user unfriendly, this does not mean that ub3rgames agrees, which is good, in my opinion, players should NOT be involved in the basic mechanics too much. As we can see, everyone has a different approach on things.

That ub3rgames is then at a risk if something does not work out because "population and/or player behavior", then they either fix it, which might be too late. But also does not mean that a well thought through system should not be tested under/in(?) real condition.
They should at least have let it be on inDev for at least 1-2 months though, too laze for that sadly.

Back to the problem and MY opinion:

Be able to chose a bank with gear: People will exploit it for traveling one-way after they delivered something (trade problematic, does not apply often, that is true, yet people with trade/travel alts might exploit this for easier trade deliveries since gold is global and dumped after the trade into the empty bank)

Be able to get gear delivered: People will exploit is to get things delivered, the higher the fee, the more can rich people get richer and the poor stay poor (far worse than first option)

Bindstones? Well, also defeats the local game play purpose.

A fee to respawn at x?

I agree, that many players will be turned off, I also said and see the huge risk of rage quit after death. The problem is just, which solutions are there to help such players out, without changing too much of game play?

That some markets will be empty is somewhat sure, depending on the regional loot changes after the apocalypse.
This could be changed IF you were able to see into other marketplaces just to see what is in over there where I plan to travel, which is a step of preparation and new players possibly would not do or know about....

The problem with missing NPCs to buy arrows and regs from should be dealt with anyways by placing additional NPCs next to every banking location who sell the basic needed things including armor and weapons (low rank obviously).

Anyways, I seem to be too optimistic(and biased) towards the whole local banking as I already played multiple games with such systems in place.

There is a cool down on the re-spawn mechanic that makes it quicker to ride/walk than try multiple re-spawns. If you die again before the timer is up you go back to the original choices you had after your first death... so no multiple death rapid travel.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #41
I still think there's too many chaos stones in the world.
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #42
I still think there's too many chaos stones in the world.

Yssam has something like 15 bindstones, cairn has 7. Stones and wilderness banks need to be rethought.
My dreams are all dead and buried
Sometimes I wish the sun would just explode
When God comes and calls me to his kingdom
I'll take all ya sons of bitches when I go!
Let her blow!

  • Nuyur
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #43
This is also why there need to be somewhat of a timer where you are not losing anything(med points) by bindstone camping, so you have at least the chance to log out without losing anything else(I think that is planned but cant remember).

If your solution to a problem is to literally log out and pray they have left when you come back the next day...
You know you've stuck your head in the sand far enough to have insufficient oxygen going to your brain.

Which is why i stopped reading here and replied instead.

People fail to realise that the world, to new players, is a complete unknown
And that exploring is only really fun when you want to be doing it.
Not naked, defenseless and lost. Because sure, you may eventually make it back to civilization...
But the time inbetween you arent exploring at all. You are trying to get somewhere to do what you want. And everything in the game is designed to get in your way. Or can at least be used in such a way that you never get there at all.

Re: DnD: Changelog - Thematic patch note recap
Reply #44
It's a bad argument because Ub3rgames implemented the respawn mechanic and soon-to-be local banking the worst way possible, with zero changes to chaos stones and Wilderness Banks.

You Guys should save your posts because its going to be a shit show till they move-add Wilderness Banks & Chaos stones. Example- elves raiding North into Mahirim lands, you're fucked. Only Wilderness Bank in Mahirim lands is on the northern border with the drwaves and the elves wilderness banks are basically right next to the NPC cities
That's the point.

It should be dangerous to push into enemy territory, not with permanent drop spots in every location you run to. Risk vs reward. And it gives the home team the advantage, as should be the case. Eg If enemies jump newbs, it gives other racial allies of those newbs time to chase down the enemy before they get to bank the gear.



Your such a potato. It's like you have a learning disability

Nobody said racial wars should be easy, but it shouldn't be near impossible to get back if you die. You remember "racial wars" right? They didn't move anything so each racial land isn't close to the same, a few are going to be supper easy to raid.