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Topic: shrink the game world (Read 1958 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #15
I completely agree @Ub3rgames you need a large world. Would it ever be considered to change it though? To freshen it up a bit and when old players return it just is not same old? I will play regardless but something new is always nice!

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #16
Large world is sick until the player base is too low and everyone spreads out and the world is equally dead everywhere.

Or everyone hotspots in 1 place and then the entire rest of the world is super dead.

Luckily at least the second option is still playable. If everyone does first option game is toast. Or player base will be super good but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high :p

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #17
Personally, I would favor a large world.
Current Map is 32x32 tiles I believe.
I say make it 60 tiles North/South, and 100 tiles East/West.
And make the East/West sides connect.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #18
No.

The world is not big enough.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #19
rip attempt 4.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #20

  • Morad
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Re: shrink the game world
Reply #21
Well my guess is, for those players who are interested in strictly PVP, with the ability to port anywhere at any given time,
this game may not fit into their typical "instant arena type" gameplay.

I'm also guessing that Ubrgames is gearing this game towards the crowd that initially had a strong interest in
the original concept of Darkfall, which never really happened because of an unfinished game.

I am of the crowd that does NOT want instant PVP,  but rather incedental PVP as part of the content in an open world.

Is it possable for "Open World" & "Arena Gameplay" to coexist in one game  ?
Maybe..

I like the direction this game is going as well as many others.

I'm guessing that the target audience may be different then a strictly PVP audience.

We shall see.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #22
I think the first thing they should have done, is an arena with some queue system. Would have helped test out combat balance. Team vs team, 1v1, no loot, full loot, wager, whatever. Don't think it would have consumed too much dev time from their part and well worth the effort, people would still log in weekends for a quick combat.
IGN: "Eilis Traee"
However, you have to take into account why we are introducing local banking.
In New Dawn, its main purpose is to be a convenience feature.
"Things just got worse."

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #23
Like seriously, maybe i dont want to be at your hotspot, maybe i want relatively quieter wilderness for minding my own god damn business, whatever that might be.

Why does everyone seem to be so stuck in either (1)instant pvp(everyone has to be fair game with very little effort, its almost as if we exist to be your punching bags) or

... Some sort of a (2)carebear fantasy where everything is saved/non lootable/refundable, where people meet and have 'fair duels'


There has to be a middle ground, and there has to be something else in the game to occupy yourself, other than instant pvp bonanza.
Or this mmo will be, what most of such games are, pretty damn dead anyway. Which is better, handful of battle hardened pvp vets, or large playerbase of people that consists of those AND other who also sometimes find fun in participating?

Note that i dont imply hard coded safe zones or anything that silly, just as real world has backwater places and wilderness, so should Darkfall.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #24
Like seriously, maybe i dont want to be at your hotspot, maybe i want relatively quieter wilderness for minding my own god damn business, whatever that might be.

Why does everyone seem to be so stuck in either (1)instant pvp(everyone has to be fair game with very little effort, its almost as if we exist to be your punching bags) or

... Some sort of a (2)carebear fantasy where everything is saved/non lootable/refundable, where people meet and have 'fair duels'


There has to be a middle ground, and there has to be something else in the game to occupy yourself, other than instant pvp bonanza.
Or this mmo will be, what most of such games are, pretty damn dead anyway. Which is better, handful of battle hardened pvp vets, or large playerbase of people that consists of those AND other who also sometimes find fun in participating?

Note that i dont imply hard coded safe zones or anything that silly, just as real world has backwater places and wilderness, so should Darkfall.
There is a middle ground, It's called "Darkfall New Dawn".

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #25
And this is why the game most likely wont succeed. Some players think the gaem should be an arena, adn some think it should be a farmville simulator. And both paths would kill the game.

If they make the game an arena low risk low reward tons of pvp it just becomes super pointless. Everything has no meaning. No need to grind, op gear got nerfed to make pvp more casual. No good reward for winning. Nothing to fight over. Nothing to work towards. = game dies.

Farmville sim kills the game also. Cuz if everyoen can just go farm in peace and safety the world feels super dead and everyone else quits cuz its boring and theres no action. When the people who jsut want to farm and skill 24/7 are practically playing the wrong game cuz skilling in darkfall honestly is really below par. "Oh boy I'm such a good crafter I grinded to high level and click craft and make it"... Theres way better mmo's to gridn and farm in.

The game can pretty much only succeed by having the perfect balance between kids not getting ganked 24/7 while trying to farm but having enough important things and spots for people to fight over to get the action they crave to want to play the game more without having to wander forever to find anyone.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #26
People can find each other when the population spread is predictable.
There will always be specific spawns, dungeons, villages, trade hubs and so on where people will regroup.
And there will be ways of "summoning" people, through "mini-siege" mechanics around holdings, watchtowers and villages.
We do not worry about action being found. It is just a matter of reward structure.

However, you have to realize that the world is not that big and can be crossed in a short time.
As we said in our initial reply, we worry more that the map is too small than the opposite.
It is important that two clans living across the world cannot interact easily with each other, because that's the barrier of entry that allows traders and trade hubs in between them to exist.
We already have that balance, perhaps even on the lower size already.

As an open question:
What would you consider a crowded city? What about a crowded spawn?
Essentially what would be the sweet spot and what would be the point where it gets frustrating to have too many people near you?
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #27

However, you have to realize that the world is not that big and can be crossed in a short time.
As we said in our initial reply, we worry more that the map is too small than the opposite.
It is important that two clans living across the world cannot interact easily with each other, because that's the barrier of entry that allows traders and trade hubs in between them to exist.
We already have that balance, perhaps even on the lower size already.

As an open question:
What would you consider a crowded city? What about a crowded spawn?
Essentially what would be the sweet spot and what would be the point where it gets frustrating to have too many people near you?
It is true that a bigger map promotes trade routes and stuff, but honestly itrs a very small amount of people (I would think) who actually want to ride back and forth for ages to make a profit. Traveling in df isnt exactly a fun activity.

And then you get the nice con of a bigger world. When theres lot of action or something happening on one side of the map, but lots of players cant get in on any of it because its not worth trying it ride gear and everything an hour away. And then the conflict dies out cuz there isnt enough people so it dies out. When if more people could have come to join in an epic war it could have made a lot of fun for a lot more of the player base.

People being able to share each others action is a great way to make a smaller player base feel bigger. Its hard to share action if the world is too big and spread. The current world size could be ok. But bigger would prob hurt this a lot.

In response to the open question- This is a very good question. Really it just depends on the player for the specifics. To me the best farming spots should usually always have someone, and the random less good spots should have people sometimes, without always being dead. The problem with this is gankfall. If spots always have people they get ganked 24/7. But I talk about the fix to this later. For the overall general feel of if a area is too crowded or not, smaller world is > bigger world. Heres my theory on why,

If the population is super good, and a city is mega crowded (so its hard to farm, you get jumped constantly anywhere near the town, etc), people will just leave that town and go live in another. As the town gets less crowded, less people will leave. This gives you like a dissipation as you get farther from the hotspots.

I feel like it doesnt work as well backwards. I feel like they are more likely to quit this way because before they had to leave their town cuz the game is doing too well, Thats ok. But if they have to leave the town they want to live in because the game is too dead they might as well just leave cuz the game isnt doing well.

You obviously want the option for players who want minimal interaction to be able to ride farther away from the population to not get jumped 24/7. But at the same time you dont want them to be able to go so far away that they can pretty much be completely safe. Cuz at that point they arnt even a player in the world anymore, so those players contribute nothing to the game (besides sub $).

I think one of the main problems with gankfall isnt actually how easy it is to go around and look for people to gank, but how easy it is to gank someone once you find them. I cant really give a solution to this, but it has to do with how darkfall's pvp works. With transfers and how good ranged attacks are when you get jumped solo its usually over. Aids insta mount spawning (one of my least fav df mechanics) does kinda counter this but it doesnt really contribute anything when two+ guys bolt your mount down in seconds anyway.

Combine the op infinite stam and mana of the attackers with that you are prob not full stats to begin with is just guaranteed death of the person actually trying to farm.

Now idk how to really change that but honestly making ganking farmers harder would prob help more then making the population spread more to avoid ganks.
  • Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 01:18:49 am by bobthecat

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #28
"It is true that a bigger map promotes trade routes and stuff, but honestly itrs a very small amount of people (I would think) who actually want to ride back and forth for ages to make a profit. Traveling in df isnt exactly a fun activity. "

Then those people should(will) be given tools to make that kind of activity fun, healthy and intricate economy is msut have in any mmo trying to be a sandbox.

Just try to think outside the usual paradigms, there are no actual farmers, gankers or sheep in their respective pure forms. There are people and player experience, their preferences, hobbies, interests etc. Some are active in trying to accumulate wealth and resources through trading, some are more focused on diplomatics and warfare. Some prefer to actually gather the resources they need by themselves(not just "bloody farmers" or "carebears.").

There has to be wide variety of such possible activities, and players usually mix together multiple of em.
Have you played EVE Online or at least read some in depth reviews, its a perfect example of a mmo that has shit tons of layers and levels of possible interaction.

You see, the sandbox term is not something that exists purely for sake of itsself. It indicates, or should indicate that the game has huge variety of things to do. There are other games that have narrow but well developed goals, that dont even pretend to be anything else, and its fine.

That being said, the word sandbox is nowdays rather excessively used, just because you technically can do 2560 things, doesent always mean those have any real depth to em.

I cant help but stress it again, to gamers AND Ub3rgames alike. Do NOT get stuck knee deep in labels, categories and in general, well trodden paths and dont accept half measures. Its so easy to fall into habbit of merely re combining what has already been done elsewhere. Dont try to sell same thing over and over again, you will be competing with some 10+ other mmo-s that are all scrambling to attract the players.(you cant really rely on early access, beta and/or post immediate launch "locusts," you know the crowd that wanders into any new game, to get a first hand experience, irregardless if it really 'gels' with em or not).

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #29
Quote
And then you get the nice con of a bigger world. When theres lot of action or something happening on one side of the map, but lots of players cant get in on any of it because its not worth trying it ride gear and everything an hour away.

They are not SUPPOSED to, its not an arena, remember? Someone on a far away land has no business to that particular regional conflict, unless they go through the pains to make it their business, which is where logistics, outsourcing and economy comes to play.

Do i really have to give a 'sandbox solution?'

If you want to tip the scales so badly, maybe hire some local  force to act as a proxy. THIS is what sandbox is about, not instant teleport.