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Topic: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling (Read 1118 times) previous topic - next topic

Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
The recent changes to wild nodes indicated that they would scale with distance from banks/towers.  I wanted to test it out and went to an area 2.1 km from the nearest bank/tower in any direction, the most remote location on Agon I could find.  4 iron nodes were emptied completely by myself and a friend, we got drops of 1, 2 and 3 as we mined and it averaged just under 2 by by estimation, total yield was...

463 Iron
103 Sulfur
1 Veilron, 2 Neithal, 1 Theyril
2 Emeralds, 1 Turquoise, 1 Diamond

In my opinion the wild node scaling is good on quantity of resources, modest on rate of extraction, and poor in rare yield.  I would raise the rate modestly, and the rares substantially as a <1% rate is not sufficient to entice anyone out in the wild to mine particularly when one considers that these would be nearly the best iron nodes in the game I was hitting.
Lodrig Valinson - Deposed Supreme General of the Steel Bones

  • mrW
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #1
The recent changes to wild nodes indicated that they would scale with distance from banks/towers.  I wanted to test it out and went to an area 2.1 km from the nearest bank/tower in any direction, the most remote location on Agon I could find.  4 iron nodes were emptied completely by myself and a friend, we got drops of 1, 2 and 3 as we mined and it averaged just under 2 by by estimation, total yield was...

463 Iron
103 Sulfur
1 Veilron, 2 Neithal, 1 Theyril
2 Emeralds, 1 Turquoise, 1 Diamond

In my opinion the wild node scaling is good on quantity of resources, modest on rate of extraction, and poor in rare yield.  I would raise the rate modestly, and the rares substantially as a <1% rate is not sufficient to entice anyone out in the wild to mine particularly when one considers that these would be nearly the best iron nodes in the game I was hitting.
You have no gathering titles, therefore your opinion is invalid.

Joking aside, that's good 4-5 plate sets? I think it's a decent baseline.
  • Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:16:46 am by mrW

Quote
"Our title system is an expansion of the titles in the same spirit than the destroyer title. These will NOT be classes and will be completely optional."

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #2
Note that these are not wild nodes, just regular nodes far from safety.
The concept of wild nodes is of wild clan nodes that have an influence sphere around them that makes them lawless and improve nodes around them.

The general nodes serve as a baseline and already have a higher rate. We initially had them at the same rate as clan mines, but decided to lower it in order to leave room for tools and titles and to keep holdings having value.

However, we would be interested on feedback about how the scaling steps feel?
The quantity is what should have the most value in this system, for economies of scale to be based off of risks.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #3
Note that these are not wild nodes, just regular nodes far from safety.
The concept of wild nodes is of wild clan nodes that have an influence sphere around them that makes them lawless and improve nodes around them.

The general nodes serve as a baseline and already have a higher rate. We initially had them at the same rate as clan mines, but decided to lower it in order to leave room for tools and titles and to keep holdings having value.

However, we would be interested on feedback about how the scaling steps feel?
The quantity is what should have the most value in this system, for economies of scale to be based off of risks.

It feels at a zone+ from a holding there is little difference from there on and it seems there should be more value in finding those scarce nodes more than a couple zones from every bank.spots

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #4
Note that these are not wild nodes, just regular nodes far from safety.
The concept of wild nodes is of wild clan nodes that have an influence sphere around them that makes them lawless and improve nodes around them.

The general nodes serve as a baseline and already have a higher rate. We initially had them at the same rate as clan mines, but decided to lower it in order to leave room for tools and titles and to keep holdings having value.

However, we would be interested on feedback about how the scaling steps feel?
The quantity is what should have the most value in this system, for economies of scale to be based off of risks.

It feels at a zone+ from a holding there is little difference from there on and it seems there should be more value in finding those scarce nodes more than a couple zones from every bank.spots

I agree.  I feel the rare drop is too low for the risk of mining way out in the open.

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #5
Note that these are not wild nodes, just regular nodes far from safety.
The concept of wild nodes is of wild clan nodes that have an influence sphere around them that makes them lawless and improve nodes around them.

As no such node exists yet I and I suspect most players refer to anything outside of a holding as wild.

The general nodes serve as a baseline and already have a higher rate. We initially had them at the same rate as clan mines, but decided to lower it in order to leave room for tools and titles and to keep holdings having value.

Why are you always leaving things in a gimped state with the excuse that some other future feature will balance things.  As we have none of these tools and titles right now all we end up with is no one doing the darn activity which needs testing.  It would be trivial to just lower the drop rates when thouse features are put in as it is just numbers on a database.

However, we would be interested on feedback about how the scaling steps feel?
The quantity is what should have the most value in this system, for economies of scale to be based off of risks.

I've only tested the extremes, nodes inside the back of Aradoth are 20 iron and near worthless, I always try to raid someone elses mine rather then touch them.  I did not think there were discrete 'steps' and assumed it was a smother curve of improving quantity, rate and rare percentage.  These nodes 2+ km from anything are yielding ~110 and are OK on total quantity, but nothing else about them is good enough.
Lodrig Valinson - Deposed Supreme General of the Steel Bones

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #6
I like the last change to nodes. Very good one.

Lodrig talking about raiding mines... Don't even listen to his fantasies.

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #7
I disagree with OP. What's the point of mines if a regular node can be as good or better.

In my opinion the nodes yield, drop chance and capacity ate in a good place now
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #8
@ImpalerWrG
Ha yes, we get why one would make the difference in names.
We've used internally and externally the following nomenclature: normal nodes, clan nodes and wild nodes.
Which is why we preferred to make a note, to not leave the impression wild nodes were already implemented.

They are not meant to be at a gimped state but to be balanced at a standalone level. They are markedly better than in the past.
There are higher base odds for rares (up to 25%), but the quantity and increased efficiency alone are the real advantages.
With higher frequency of dice rolls, you get a higher output of rares over time. You can witness that best with sulfur/gems.
So what we currently have are hundreds of semi-clan mines spread across the world.

There is a smooth progression curve, but since we can't split an item in fractions, it creates steps of node growth.
What we would like to know is if the felt difference between the heat drop off of various types of banks seems natural or if, perhaps , one is under/over valued over another.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • L4Mf
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #9
Methinks OP is a noob tester, 2.1km is not a long distance if he even combined it porperly.

"- Now, mining, woodcutting and herb gathering nodes scale based on the combined distance to the closest bank and closest racial guard tower."

Imo the bugger issue is that the world wasn't built with this feature in mind.
So 2 things that would improve this feature would be:
1) more nodes placed around the world (from starter/NPC areas to the farthest edges of the subcontinents (just add a random # of nodes)
2) more nodes in dungeons (I'm too lazy to test but I imagine the Y axis helps too?) thus creating real mines


Otherwise all the players that start the game won't have any nearby sources of metal (dwarflands fx is not so great anymore if you want to get plenty of iron) or even wood.

Because if you succeed with DnD then even 5-6 active players will keep the nodes empty throughout the day with current status.

At least that's my theory, and I'll say 1 more thing: sure DF was designed to allow for 10k players on at the same time, however the sources for materials certainly haven't been designed to accommodate such large numbers.

I believe someone told me a mine can supply about 10 people? lol :D

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #10
disagree with OP. I think the nodes are well balanced as they are right now with room for Titles and tools.

Last time i harvested 2.1km away from the next bank/City i got an average of 140 items each node and like 1.5 rares each
Rorschach MiM

Retired:  Rorschach Greyhead / Marquez VonHinten

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #11
So I am 2km+ from any banks and getting a lot per node (right around 200 with everything in total) but the rare drops are underwhelming and doing about 5.5 nodes (pick broke) ive gotten ~750 ore ~300 sulfur 12 gems and 6 rare ores.

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #12
you got rather unlucky there.
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion

Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #13
People need to realize that 2 km from a bank is literally THE FARTHEST YOU CAN BE from a bank, and only a few places in the whole world are that remote, I'd estimate 4 locations on Agon and 1 each on the subcontinents.  So these locations are rarer then mines.  For the majority of the map you cant get more then about 1.2 km from a bank and at this distance the yields are even lower.

I think it would be helpful in the devs gave us a heat map to compare our prospecting against.
  • Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 08:28:57 am by ImpalerWrG
Lodrig Valinson - Deposed Supreme General of the Steel Bones

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Wild nodes have poor yield scaling
Reply #14
and you lodrig have to realize that 2km away from a bank is NOT the farthest you can be from a bank. and that there are plenty of areas that are 2km away from the bank. yes some areas have more of those spots and some have less. but it's not just 4 spots on the main continent. and the subcontinents actually have quite a lot of areas that are over 2km away from any bank.
And i am not even taking all the small islands off the coast into account.

also those nodes are supposed be rarer.
Bala Eregi
SG of Bewahrer der Welten
SG of The Tausian Dominion