AV probably still owns the license  you guys are gonna be bidding on a stapler or office furniture.

But any intellectual property developed by Ub3rgames belongs to Ub3rgames, even though it was for the licensed IP of AV. So technically, you'd be bidding on all the code related to local banking, mount inventories, title system, marketplace, and the parts of the engine that was optimized.

For all that to be useful though, you'd have to get a license from AV too. Which might be doable in the future. The business of Darkfall still has un-tapped potential, since marketing has still been non-existant for some reason lol.

Practically, you can bid and get all that for a few euros (1 years++ worth of development), and later on get a license from AV (a much better negotiated one, since you have the higher ground against AV, with that 3 companies has failed to build a lasting profitable business from their game and engine), and have a good go.

If ROA and DND fall over, whoever tries next has a MUCH better chance of success.

I'm giving it a shot, and taking a bid on it. Developers cost ~15k euros a year where I live, one of the best internet connections in all of europe and there are a ton of VCs hungry to inject money in big projects.

Yeah, the developers are the value here.

It would be nice if gamer communities like Old Gamers Guild and others came together to buy this, and found a reliable way to pay for server infrastructure. The question is how the AV license works out

ROA and DND have the sole rights for the licenses currently, which means both projects have to run out of business for anyone else to attempt. But the acquired IP can be bought now and held until ROA tanks as well, and then new talks can be made with AV. A lot of pain points can be removed from the new license.

I dont see ROA dieing anytime soon... the switch to F2P and the fact the entire company is run by people who have normal jobs leaves pretty much only server costs and 1-2 developers as overhead. It also appears they know how to pay taxes and charge a sub.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

You get more than double that on the dole

If you have the money to throw away on DnD license/debt you should send a couple grand my way. I can think of several ways to waste it that are better than giving it to Tasos.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

Yeah that caught my eye as well. There's a few things he got incorrect.

If he's in South Korea which currently has the best internet infrastructure in the world , it's still costs you more than 15K annually for developer ( it's salary X multiplier = ?) depending where you live every employee cost you taxes, insurance ect.. even if you could get a developer at 15k salary annually which I find hard to believe. Per-employee cost adds up pretty quickly (even contracted) that's why all this development stuff is so expensive.

The IP license from adenturine to RoA and Ub3rgames is not exclusive. I know this firsthand and if you don't believe me you can contact aventurine, but they might not even respond unless you submit a proposal.

Either way, myself and a few others have been following this as well. We'll see what happens

Edit- what I'm saying is that there clearly is a path to a profitable game here.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

My fixed salary is ~62k € but I think Sweden might also be somewhere in the top in the EU. When I work extra it tends to be around 50€/h, when I consult it tends to be around 100-150€/h. 15k € annually sounds like a junior/mid Bosnian/Ukrainian developer.

Damn the pay in the US is so much better but I don't think I'm allowed to enter  110k+ $ annually wouldn't have been too bad though.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

Yeah that caught my eye as well. There's a few things he got incorrect.

If he's in South Korea which currently has the best internet infrastructure in the world , it's still costs you more than 15K annually for developer ( it's salary X multiplier = ?) depending where you live every employee cost you taxes, insurance ect.. even if you could get a developer at 15k salary annually which I find hard to believe. Per-employee cost adds up pretty quickly (even contracted) that's why all this development stuff is so expensive.

The IP license from adenturine to RoA and Ub3rgames is not exclusive. I know this firsthand and if you don't believe me you can contact aventurine, but they might not even respond unless you submit a proposal.

Either way, myself and a few others have been following this as well. We'll see what happens

Edit- what I'm saying is that there clearly is a path to a profitable game here.

depends if in dnds contract it allows them to transfer the license. It took ROA and DND months to solidify a contract with av id wager its quite extensive.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

My fixed salary is ~62k € but I think Sweden might also be somewhere in the top in the EU. When I work extra it tends to be around 50€/h, when I consult it tends to be around 100-150€/h. 15k € annually sounds like a junior/mid Bosnian/Ukrainian developer.

Damn the pay in the US is so much better but I don't think I'm allowed to enter 110k+ $ annually wouldn't have been too bad though.

@Ivar_theBoneless
You probably can't comprehend it but 15k per year is more than any Aventurine developer ever got and more than most Greek developers get since then in Greece. That's why AV was founded in Greece and not Norway... And Greece doesn't even have the lowest salaries in Europe, just the highest unemployment.


p.s. Just checked this forum after quite a while because the anniversary is close. I can't believe people are still so active here (even if it's just for talk, lol. I thought it would be a complete desert by now...

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

Yeah that caught my eye as well. There's a few things he got incorrect.

If he's in South Korea which currently has the best internet infrastructure in the world , it's still costs you more than 15K annually for developer ( it's salary X multiplier = ?) depending where you live every employee cost you taxes, insurance ect.. even if you could get a developer at 15k salary annually which I find hard to believe. Per-employee cost adds up pretty quickly (even contracted) that's why all this development stuff is so expensive.

The IP license from adenturine to RoA and Ub3rgames is not exclusive. I know this firsthand and if you don't believe me you can contact aventurine, but they might not even respond unless you submit a proposal.

Either way, myself and a few others have been following this as well. We'll see what happens

Edit- what I'm saying is that there clearly is a path to a profitable game here.

depends if in dnds contract it allows them to transfer the license. It took ROA and DND months to solidify a contract with av id wager its quite extensive.

You wouldn't. Just buy the work Ub3games has done. License the IP, and you're good to go to do whatever you want to do. If you wanted to continue on their design which I think is actually pretty good

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

My fixed salary is ~62k € but I think Sweden might also be somewhere in the top in the EU. When I work extra it tends to be around 50€/h, when I consult it tends to be around 100-150€/h. 15k € annually sounds like a junior/mid Bosnian/Ukrainian developer.

Damn the pay in the US is so much better but I don't think I'm allowed to enter 110k+ $ annually wouldn't have been too bad though.

@Ivar_theBoneless
You probably can't comprehend it but 15k per year is more than any Aventurine developer ever got and more than most Greek developers get since then in Greece. That's why AV was founded in Greece and not Norway... And Greece doesn't even have the lowest salaries in Europe, just the highest unemployment.


p.s. Just checked this forum after quite a while because the anniversary is close. I can't believe people are still so active here (even if it's just for talk, lol. I thought it would be a complete desert by now...

Adventurine was able to secure a government grant, and then purchase the game from razorwax. Instead of commuting they asked the guys to just come down and live there. Had nothing to do with cost of living. 0/10

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

Yeah that caught my eye as well. There's a few things he got incorrect.

If he's in South Korea which currently has the best internet infrastructure in the world , it's still costs you more than 15K annually for developer ( it's salary X multiplier = ?) depending where you live every employee cost you taxes, insurance ect.. even if you could get a developer at 15k salary annually which I find hard to believe. Per-employee cost adds up pretty quickly (even contracted) that's why all this development stuff is so expensive.

The IP license from adenturine to RoA and Ub3rgames is not exclusive. I know this firsthand and if you don't believe me you can contact aventurine, but they might not even respond unless you submit a proposal.

Either way, myself and a few others have been following this as well. We'll see what happens

Edit- what I'm saying is that there clearly is a path to a profitable game here.

depends if in dnds contract it allows them to transfer the license. It took ROA and DND months to solidify a contract with av id wager its quite extensive.

You wouldn't. Just buy the work Ub3games has done. License the IP, and you're good to go to do whatever you want to do. If you wanted to continue on their design which I think is actually pretty good

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

My fixed salary is ~62k € but I think Sweden might also be somewhere in the top in the EU. When I work extra it tends to be around 50€/h, when I consult it tends to be around 100-150€/h. 15k € annually sounds like a junior/mid Bosnian/Ukrainian developer.

Damn the pay in the US is so much better but I don't think I'm allowed to enter 110k+ $ annually wouldn't have been too bad though.

@Ivar_theBoneless
You probably can't comprehend it but 15k per year is more than any Aventurine developer ever got and more than most Greek developers get since then in Greece. That's why AV was founded in Greece and not Norway... And Greece doesn't even have the lowest salaries in Europe, just the highest unemployment.


p.s. Just checked this forum after quite a while because the anniversary is close. I can't believe people are still so active here (even if it's just for talk, lol. I thought it would be a complete desert by now...

Adventurine was able to secure a government grant, and then purchase the game from razorwax. Instead of commuting they asked the guys to just come down and live there. Had nothing to do with cost of living. 0/10

such a good design its been b2p for a year and still noone plays it.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

Yeah that caught my eye as well. There's a few things he got incorrect.

If he's in South Korea which currently has the best internet infrastructure in the world , it's still costs you more than 15K annually for developer ( it's salary X multiplier = ?) depending where you live every employee cost you taxes, insurance ect.. even if you could get a developer at 15k salary annually which I find hard to believe. Per-employee cost adds up pretty quickly (even contracted) that's why all this development stuff is so expensive.

The IP license from adenturine to RoA and Ub3rgames is not exclusive. I know this firsthand and if you don't believe me you can contact aventurine, but they might not even respond unless you submit a proposal.

Either way, myself and a few others have been following this as well. We'll see what happens

Edit- what I'm saying is that there clearly is a path to a profitable game here.

depends if in dnds contract it allows them to transfer the license. It took ROA and DND months to solidify a contract with av id wager its quite extensive.

You wouldn't. Just buy the work Ub3games has done. License the IP, and you're good to go to do whatever you want to do. If you wanted to continue on their design which I think is actually pretty good

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

My fixed salary is ~62k € but I think Sweden might also be somewhere in the top in the EU. When I work extra it tends to be around 50€/h, when I consult it tends to be around 100-150€/h. 15k € annually sounds like a junior/mid Bosnian/Ukrainian developer.

Damn the pay in the US is so much better but I don't think I'm allowed to enter 110k+ $ annually wouldn't have been too bad though.

@Ivar_theBoneless
You probably can't comprehend it but 15k per year is more than any Aventurine developer ever got and more than most Greek developers get since then in Greece. That's why AV was founded in Greece and not Norway... And Greece doesn't even have the lowest salaries in Europe, just the highest unemployment.


p.s. Just checked this forum after quite a while because the anniversary is close. I can't believe people are still so active here (even if it's just for talk, lol. I thought it would be a complete desert by now...

Adventurine was able to secure a government grant, and then purchase the game from razorwax. Instead of commuting they asked the guys to just come down and live there. Had nothing to do with cost of living. 0/10

@Ivar_theBoneless
"The meeting in Norway went fine. The only hindrance was the cost of living and running a company in Norway compared to Greece."
Claus Grovdal, Lead Design and Producer of Razorwax

This @Xipos where do you live brother? I had it in my head that you were British.

If Im not mistaken Xipos is Norwegian so 15k not gonna happen...


...and yes AV was made in Greece due to the extreme cost of doing anything in Norway. To succeed here in this business you need to develop for Oil and Gas or convince some politicians that you have a software that helps them being less incompetent.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

You get more than double that on the dole

I'm an expat Norwegian living in Riga

Alright, 20k is a more reasonable approximation, but junior devs get around 1-1,2k euros/mo here, seasoned devs with some years experience can get around 1,6k euros/mo (brutto), top-notch pros get almost scandinavian salaries and get to live like they are millionaires. The Baltics has become a hotspot in northern europe for all things IT (Accenture, Evry, Atea, almost every scandinavian online casino, Oracle and more have huge offices here). Fresh dev kids are skilled, especially in Java (Darkfall's server components are written in Java), and you could get C++ devs for a slightly higher budget at around 2k euros/mo (also brutto).

Because of the low costs of labor, VCs are funding startups like crazy here; lower burnrate on employees, and the core devs are usually part of the founding team.

Xipos, 15k euro for a dev? annually?

You get more than double that on the dole

I'm an expat Norwegian living in Riga

Alright, 20k is a more reasonable approximation, but junior devs get around 1-1,2k euros/mo here, seasoned devs with some years experience can get around 1,6k euros/mo (brutto), top-notch pros get almost scandinavian salaries and get to live like they are millionaires. The Baltics has become a hotspot in northern europe for all things IT (Accenture, Evry, Atea, almost every scandinavian online casino, Oracle and more have huge offices here). Fresh dev kids are skilled, especially in Java (Darkfall's server components are written in Java), and you could get C++ devs for a slightly higher budget at around 2k euros/mo (also brutto).

Because of the low costs of labor, VCs are funding startups like crazy here; lower burnrate on employees, and the core devs are usually part of the founding team.

Haha so nothing British about you:D Gotta say though, the way you lay it out, I can almost feel a small bubble of excitement

You cant hire a delivery driver for 20k in the states. Hell the left is pushing for 15 dollars an hour min wage which is a little more than 30k a year.