Skip to main content

Topic: Incoming game shut down. (Read 4179 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #120
Just stop @Ivar_theBoneless , you're clueless, as always. As in everything, its not over before a close done.

You should talk to your nov 5 self. Try to get on the same page internally

Quote
#18 - November 05, 2018, 03:03:16 pm
Its a weird timing for Marc to conclude that he is not gonna speak to the "trolls" anymore, the trolls that informed him that his company is in liquidation. This ship is going down, 100%, and probably quite soon.

Its radio silence cause there isnt any good news and most likely bad news, very bad news. Makes me wonder if the server is still up out of stubborness and pride.

At least you're a fucking idiot to the end Nataz

Ok let me teaspoon feed you Ivar:

Me/Nataz: Is 100% sure this game will sunset and that quite soon ( I hope Im wrong). My main argument is what kind of creditor Ub3r is up against. Governmental usually has little flexibility and leeway as that will create precedent and rock with the principle of equal threatment (The law applies to all). I think the business case of DND isnt good enough to cover the debt fast enough and it didnt help iniate unrest in the community, it kinda tells me how weak ub3r is and show a severe lack of business acumen.

Marc/Liquidator: Are at the moment working out from a common interest to find a solution, so no foul play or bad intent on their part. The court can also reverse the ruling if at any stage in the process get an appeal that it didnt have all the fact at the time of judgement. Its also possible to apply for stay, temp or permanent. If I understand correctly they're now settling for a CVA, which is a rollback in the process of liquidation.
  • Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:34:55 am by Nataz

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #121
I'm pretty sure if they were shit out of luck by this point there would be no reason for silence. What can they really gain, a few 100 euros in client sales? Makes no sense, makes more sense they are working on a big patch and dont want to admit we wont be seeing anything until after New Year and so they say nothing.
I've never had any issue with you whether it be ingame or on the forums, I've always appreciated your perspective even though it often differs from mine, but you've said this a few times now and I do have a huge issue with people spreading ignorance.

You can't be pretty sure of what they would do in the event that the ship is sinking and there are a lot of reasons to keep silent about it. If you can't think of some valid ones I guess most of your other opinions are invalid too. Fuck, I've even posted some within a a couple of minutes of thinking in response to someone.

Don't you own a bookshop or something (or at least had to move a lot of books)? That should to some extend imply that you are not as gullible and ignorant as people that have actually never read one.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #122
I'm pretty sure if they were shit out of luck by this point there would be no reason for silence. What can they really gain, a few 100 euros in client sales? Makes no sense, makes more sense they are working on a big patch and dont want to admit we wont be seeing anything until after New Year and so they say nothing.
I've never had any issue with you whether it be ingame or on the forums, I've always appreciated your perspective even though it often differs from mine, but you've said this a few times now and I do have a huge issue with people spreading ignorance.

You can't be pretty sure of what they would do in the event that the ship is sinking and there are a lot of reasons to keep silent about it. If you can't think of some valid ones I guess most of your other opinions are invalid too. Fuck, I've even posted some within a a couple of minutes of thinking in response to someone.

Don't you own a bookshop or something (or at least had to move a lot of books)? That should to some extend imply that you are not as gullible and ignorant as people that have actually never read one.

Fine can you give me a reason why, if they really knew they were shutting for sure, why it would be adventages to not tell us? I understand you are caught up in the gloom and doom, but im a critical thinker and don't buy into nonsense, so make sense for me here?

I find it ridiculous that you 'don't appreciate' me being reasonable and not caught up in the gloom and doom, so show me you aren't the one being absurd here.
  • Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 06:00:12 pm by Mycke

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #123
One reason why would be restricted communications in their agreement with AV.  There are lots of possible reasons.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #124
One reason why would be restricted communications in their agreement with AV.  There are lots of possible reasons.

That makes no sense, there is no valid legal reason that such a clause would be included in an initial contract, the idea their contract included 'in the event of possible termination no public communication of said termination shall be permitted'. Even in a renegotiation to keep the game going there would be no reason for a clause limiting communication.

If the game is over and there is no future, silence makes no sense, it only makes sense if there is a future or if the future is unknown. Now if they were charging subs and trying to milk as much out of them as possible, sure but since there is no revenue stream I don't buy this at all.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #125
That makes no sense, there is no valid legal reason that such a clause would be included in an initial contract, the idea their contract included 'in the event of possible termination no public communication of said termination shall be permitted'. Even in a renegotiation to keep the game going there would be no reason for a clause limiting communication.
What Rimamok said is possible, even if you disagree. I have a slightly different opinion but I'll put in the effort in hopes to widen your thinking a bit. Why restrict communication? Well:

- They could be clauses that incurs penalties if they knowingly damage the population (assuming TD gets a percentage), which they would be doing if they went out with a statement that they are about to die.
- Assuming this is a lease (like on a car), breaking that contract could incur penalties. I'm not sure how it is in the UK (?) but where I'm at it almost always does. They might not be restricted from communicating but they could possibly be restricted from quitting on the game, which they would be doing by communicating. It might be cheaper to pay the costs for keeping this game running than it is to break the contract.
- There might be a requirement of X amount of players/copies sold in the contract, which would diminish by communication.
- Depending on the license, they might not be allowed to take a "working" version of Darkfall down without communicating with who ever, assuming that Tasos gets a dollar every time someone buys a copy.
- Could be a clause that says they can't speak negatively about or "misrepresent" Darkfall, which in turn could end up as a matter of interpenetration if they say something around the lines that they can't make this game work.
- Contract could be formulated in such a way that they are more the caretakers than owners of the product, meaning that do not have the right to decide when it goes down.

Thing is, I haven't thought about Rims reason myself, I could still give you a few legal reasons to why that language could be included. That hopefully means you can too if you pause a bit before you type. Some are spot on, some are far fetched, but if you think all of the above mentioned ones are far fetched you better hit them books.

Fine can you give me a reason why, if they really knew they were shutting for sure, why it would be adventages to not tell us? I understand you are caught up in the gloom and doom, but im a critical thinker and don't buy into nonsense, so make sense for me here?

I find it ridiculous that you 'don't appreciate' me being reasonable and not caught up in the gloom and doom, so show me you aren't the one being absurd here.
I'm really not invested into this game more than reading forums now and again waiting for Uber to change, the constructive part of my criticism has dwindled quite heavily and I don't really feel like putting it back. I have the energy to urge someone to think before spreading ignorance, but not much more than that. That urge is motivated by annoyance.

I don't have an issue with you believing that there is no reason for them to be quite if they are shutting down. I do however have an issue with how you write it and the way I seem to remember that you've repeated it a few times, which to me seems like you are projecting and spreading a false picture of the situation. If you haven't repeated it and if I've read the same post multiple times I apologize. I'm a strong believer in that everyone should make up their own mind, but to do that, people need facts or ways to differentiate between facts, opinions and beliefs. Most people are not critical thinkers and writing something that can be misinterpreted will then mislead those people, you should have enough proof of this in the world without me having to type it out.

I showed you above that there could be legal reasons they would not be allowed to communicate from the Tasos Domino side, here is what I wrote a couple of weeks back.
Not entirely sure how you believe they are working on the game but can't get patch done. They seem to be conflicting statements but maybe you mean finish the patch while there is a game to save.

There is a lot of different reasons to why they would not be honest with what they are doing or whats going on. I'm not saying that is the case but think things through and decide for yourself. Most people are not good people, and even if they are good people, everyone has flaws. How could anyone possibly believe they have the same interest as you/we do, that is almost never the case. If you are lucky, your interests align. I mean what is the chance that anyone can be clueless enough not to know about a legal process in their own country, against their own company, before a forum of random people finds out? I can't remember when that process was started, but that "vacation" has always seems suspicious to me.

Here you got some examples:
  • They can't give up official because they are having legal troubles. Giving up would most likely restart the liquidation process and lead to court because then they no longer have a "valuable asset" and nothing to bargain with.
  • They might be negotiating with another company to take this over since they cant handle it, looks better while its still alive.
  • It looks better on your CV if a company dies after you leave.
  • Admitting failure is hard, far from everyone can do it.
  • Every little bit of money helps, new subs and new alts brings some amount of money.

Point is that I can keep going. Not saying any of this is true, just saying "we are working" doesn't mean shit when we don't don't see the result or any type of status update.

But hey, its all good cause there is a GM in game that says it is all good. Why would anyone in the world ever lie about anything.

I always think for myself and no one ever manages to catch me up in anything, whether it be "doom and gloom" or flowers and sunshine. Me having a different opinion than you doesn't mean I'm not evaluating everything I perceive on my own. I also never misrepresent facts, as I find them to be holy. If I have an opinion I clearly state it and also state that YMMW, if someone is misrepresenting facts I correct them if I get annoyed enough.

If you want an exercise in futility you can read through my 51 posts to verify that. I'd recommend skipping reading the ones that contain strong language because if it contains some, chances are that is all the post contains. I haven't verified this myself but considering that I IRL say "I'm almost sure" and not "I'm sure"/"This is fact" when I'm 90-99% sure I'm quite comfortable with that statement. If I say that I'm sure of something then you can expect it to be backed up by papers or immense knowledge on the subject.
  • Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 07:33:26 pm by makaveli

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #126
Just so we are clear I have a degree that includes tort law so im not coming from a position of 'google expert' but actual education and the 'silence clause' is not a likely reason for their silence.

Anyway you all can spin your wheels in gloom and doom, but the reality is the future is not clear here and most likely up in the air still. The most likely situation is they are both working on the game and negotiating, with even them still not sure which way the wind will end up blowing, so thus silence.
  • Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 07:43:34 pm by Mycke

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #127
I'm not trying to break your arguments by googling, you are not worth the effort of me trying to educate myself. If I do that I do it because I have a genuine interest, not because you are being ignorant.

What I wrote is based on logic and I don't have degree like you, my degree is highly related to... logic. Since you say that you have a degree that "includes to tort law", and since I assume that you are not pathetic enough to lie about it, could I hear your opinion on what I wrote about the "silence clause" (which if you read my statement has nothing to do with silence, but rather things that could be triggered by a break of silence). If I wrote it in a bad way or if you for some reason have problem comprehending what I wrote I'll try to summarize:

- Could there be a clause that they can't give up on the game without discussing it with AV.
- Could there be a clause for them knowingly damaging the population.
- Could there be a clause for an SLA.
- Could there be a clause that prevents them from damaging the Darkfall brand/franchise.
- Could there be a clause for amount of players they need to bring in.
- Could there be a clause for AV/TD to get a portion of the player fees.
- Could the contract be formulated in such a way that they are more caretakers than owners.

Yet a-fucking-gain, think before you type. My degree has nothing to do with law, I should not be better at this than you are.

PS:
I just remembered this...damn. I've been to the supreme court in my country and only 1% of all the cases goes to supreme court. I had a partner from one of the top law-firms on my case. I wrote 90% of the reasoning, he added legal lingo, modified my language and restructured the order a bit. We won, my case became a legal precedent (?) and now all cases here relating to similar issues are judged by what I've written. I did this without access to google, computer or books. I did this with logic.

WTF have you done Myke?
  • Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 08:01:28 pm by makaveli

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #128
DARKFALL IS LIT. FACE IT

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #129
I'm not trying to break your arguments by googling, you are not worth the effort of me trying to educate myself. If I do that I do it because I have a genuine interest, not because you are being ignorant.

What I wrote is based on logic and I don't have degree like you, my degree is highly related to... logic. Since you say that you have a degree that "includes to tort law", and since I assume that you are not pathetic enough to lie about it, could I hear your opinion on what I wrote about the "silence clause" (which if you read my statement has nothing to do with silence, but rather things that could be triggered by a break of silence). If I wrote it in a bad way or if you for some reason have problem comprehending what I wrote I'll try to summarize:

- Could there be a clause that they can't give up on the game without discussing it with AV. of course, but irrelevant)
- Could there be a clause for them knowingly damaging the population. probably not
- Could there be a clause for an SLA. no, this is a form of lease not a service or supplier
- Could there be a clause that prevents them from damaging the Darkfall brand/franchise. saying the game is shutting down doesnt damage the brand
- Could there be a clause for amount of players they need to bring in. probably not, as long as AV gets theirs the lease is good
- Could there be a clause for AV/TD to get a portion of the player fees. would more likely be based on revenue/profit more than player base #s
- Could the contract be formulated in such a way that they are more caretakers than owners. I have no idea what this mean

Yet a fucking gain, think before you type. My degree has nothing to do with law, I should not be better at this than you are.

Answers in bold, but overall you are just trying to support a theory without evidence because you have decided its true and will dig for anything no matter how tenuous to support it.

Silly waste of time, just accept that probably no one at this point really know the future and it could go either way and stop being a negative nancy.

(If a lease is broken then its voided and the game shuts down and one of your arguments for their silence is they cant say the game is shutting down because that breaks the lease, but breaking the lease just shuts the game down. Talk about circular bull shit logic)
  • Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 08:08:51 pm by Mycke

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #130
Another reason could be simple stubbornness on Marc's part to admit defeat even if shutdown is imminent.  If faced with facts where the rest of us would interpret "100% chance of shutdown" he could doggedly insist there's a 10% chance of pulling it off.  And of course, in that case, he'd be a fool to admit to any chance of shutdown.

There are no absolutes here, there are tons of possibilities.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #131
Another reason could be simple stubbornness on Marc's part to admit defeat even if shutdown is imminent.  If faced with facts where the rest of us would interpret "100% chance of shutdown" he could doggedly insist there's a 10% chance of pulling it off.  And of course, in that case, he'd be a fool to admit to any chance of shutdown.

There are no absolutes here, there are tons of possibilities.

That is exactly my point, both those who are sure of shut down and those sure of a future are both just guessing and attacking each other for not liking each others guesses.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #132
Yeah, I've just been AFK crafting for the past month.  I give it 10% chance of success now... enough to inspire me to make 3000 useless weapons/bows/staves, in case the 10% materializes.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #133
TL:DR: @Mycke you are retarded, go back to school.

Motherfucker, only thing I'm saying is that you are misrepresenting facts, I'm not trying to support a theory about the game, I'm not vain enough for that. You misrepresenting the facts however is not a theory, it is a FACT. I don't give a fuck what is happening, really. I'm waiting for them to start communicating and behaving like professionals, nothing else. I don't think that they will, but hey can't really do shit about that.

If I've said something about this game, in every single post I've made, I've said that it is my opinion. I have no clue what is going on, I've never said I do. I just correct idiots like you when they claim they know better. I even manage to expose that special little chromosome that keeps you unknowingly happy with an argument that wasn't even mine because you couldn't be bothered to think before you answered rim. I clearly said that this isn't what I believe the case to be, just that you are wrong saying that its not. I believe that if they are not shutting down (if they think its dead) it has to do with them not being allowed to by the people that has a case against them. I believe that it is the only way for their creditors to get some kind of money back, since they don't have shit to sell off. I believe, meaning it is not even an opinion and far from a theory.

This is my last post on this topic since there is one thing I've made my mind up about, you are a little insecure and incapable person that really isn't worth much. Expert in you field? God I hope that you do not work in law, cause if you do, you are no expert and you are probably fucking with peoples lives. In your answers to me you even manage to do the same fucking thing you did when I wrote my initial response, represent what ever you are saying as factual statements.

- Could there be a clause that they can't give up on the game without discussing it with AV. [of course, but irrelevant]
Its not irrelevant if they need a go from AV then chances are they can't announce this either. Its not irrelevant because speaking with AV could back in the day be a nightmare.

- Could there be a clause for them knowingly damaging the population. [probably not]
Fucking idiot. If AV gets money based on revenue, you better expect this clause to be there. Would you write a contract without it? I guess we go back to how good you are at something you studied, which doesn't say much.

- Could there be a clause for an SLA. [no, this is a form of lease not a service or supplier]
Sorry have you read the contract or are you pushing you opinions and dim wit thoughts as facts again?

- Could there be a clause that prevents them from damaging the Darkfall brand/franchise. [saying the game is shutting down doesnt damage the brand]
Chromosome fail. How they say it could, which is reflected in my full text. How it is done, could. If people loose hope in this game it damages the franchise.

- Could there be a clause for amount of players they need to bring in. [probably not, as long as AV gets theirs the lease is good ]
Sorry, missed the part about you reading the contract again. Could you please post it so I could educate myself instead of you? You have no clue how this is set up. It could be a one time fee, a license fee or a percentage of the income. If it is a percentage of the income during a certain period of time any good lawyer, which isn't you, would include this.

- Could there be a clause for AV/TD to get a portion of the player fees. [would more likely be based on revenue/profit more than player base #s]
You are a within two sentences contradicting piece of shit.

- Could the contract be formulated in such a way that they are more caretakers than owners. [I have no idea what this mean]
This is the only reasonable thing you actually wrote, probably because you didn't make any actual statements. What I meant here, with a poor choice of words, is that it is more handled like a franchise.

So in short, I hope that you are better at what ever you do than what you are trying to present yourself as here. I'm having a strong suspicion that I have a lot more court experience than you, possibly infinitely more.

Re: Incoming game shut down.
Reply #134
TL:DR: @Mycke you are retarded, go back to school.

Motherfucker, only thing I'm saying is that you are misrepresenting facts, I'm not trying to support a theory about the game, I'm not vain enough for that. You misrepresenting the facts however is not a theory, it is a FACT. I don't give a fuck what is happening, really. I'm waiting for them to start communicating and behaving like professionals, nothing else. I don't think that they will, but hey can't really do shit about that.

If I've said something about this game, in every single post I've made, I've said that it is my opinion. I have no clue what is going on, I've never said I do. I just correct idiots like you when they claim they know better. I even manage to expose that special little chromosome that keeps you unknowingly happy with an argument that wasn't even mine because you couldn't be bothered to think before you answered rim. I clearly said that this isn't what I believe the case to be, just that you are wrong saying that its not. I believe that if they are not shutting down (if they think its dead) it has to do with them not being allowed to by the people that has a case against them. I believe that it is the only way for their creditors to get some kind of money back, since they don't have shit to sell off. I believe, meaning it is not even an opinion and far from a theory.

This is my last post on this topic since there is one thing I've made my mind up about, you are a little insecure and incapable person that really isn't worth much. Expert in you field? God I hope that you do not work in law, cause if you do, you are no expert and you are probably fucking with peoples lives. In your answers to me you even manage to do the same fucking thing you did when I wrote my initial response, represent what ever you are saying as factual statements.

- Could there be a clause that they can't give up on the game without discussing it with AV. [of course, but irrelevant]
Its not irrelevant if they need a go from AV then chances are they can't announce this either. Its not irrelevant because speaking with AV could back in the day be a nightmare.

- Could there be a clause for them knowingly damaging the population. [probably not]
Fucking idiot. If AV gets money based on revenue, you better expect this clause to be there. Would you write a contract without it? I guess we go back to how good you are at something you studied, which doesn't say much.

- Could there be a clause for an SLA. [no, this is a form of lease not a service or supplier]
Sorry have you read the contract or are you pushing you opinions and dim wit thoughts as facts again?

- Could there be a clause that prevents them from damaging the Darkfall brand/franchise. [saying the game is shutting down doesnt damage the brand]
Chromosome fail. How they say it could, which is reflected in my full text. How it is done, could. If people loose hope in this game it damages the franchise.

- Could there be a clause for amount of players they need to bring in. [probably not, as long as AV gets theirs the lease is good ]
Sorry, missed the part about you reading the contract again. Could you please post it so I could educate myself instead of you? You have no clue how this is set up. It could be a one time fee, a license fee or a percentage of the income. If it is a percentage of the income during a certain period of time any good lawyer, which isn't you, would include this.

- Could there be a clause for AV/TD to get a portion of the player fees. [would more likely be based on revenue/profit more than player base #s]
You are a within two sentences contradicting piece of shit.

- Could the contract be formulated in such a way that they are more caretakers than owners. [I have no idea what this mean]
This is the only reasonable thing you actually wrote, probably because you didn't make any actual statements. What I meant here, with a poor choice of words, is that it is more handled like a franchise.

So in short, I hope that you are better at what ever you do than what you are trying to present yourself as here. I'm having a strong suspicion that I have a lot more court experience than you, possibly infinitely more.

You think quantity of words makes up for quality, this is typical of those who dont know what they are talking about.