Skip to main content

Topic: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video) (Read 535 times) previous topic - next topic

why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Updated 7-15

Spoke with Marc a few days ago and cleared up a few things about this. Thought I should update my post to avoid any confusion . Weapon skill does in fact soft cap your swing speed, so an advanced character with 99 quickness vs a new character with 25 quickness attack at the same speed with a skill level of 1. Quickness adds a substantial amount of stam (which everybody knows) but its attack speed bonus is "minimal" his words. Buffing by-passes that soft cap and increases your attack speed ~but~ its totally different then a static quickness stat: a guy with 50 quickness is going to be slower then a guy buffed to 50. This makes mediating quickness the last thing you want to do after getting your melee/archery skill in the 90% power range (140=92%) Remember that any stat/skill at 100 gives 5% bonus, thats why i use 99 as an example


@Ub3rgames Why does a starting character and a character with 78 quickness swing the weapon at the same speed when both have a skill of 1 (1h blunt in this case) and the starting character (dwarf) actually gets in one more swing barely under the timer* (30 seconds) for 26 swings vs 25. Shouldn't the character with a 78 quickness be faster? I wanted to add swing speed to a small break down between new and advanced characters I'm doing. I do not remember ever hearing that weapon swing speed was based solely on weapon skill?


*I think the new character is faster because the advanced character has a -2% proficiency toward 1HB. But that is not taking quickness into account at all which I do not think is how its supposed to work.

Edit- 25 swings per 30 seconds I believe is the number we had in InDev prior to any title changes at 100 quickness

Edit- in case you were wondering why I would even test this, its because when I did the comparison between the two characters for weapons I was using as an example (great sword, archery,sword and board) the numbers were a lot closer then I thought they would be. 100 GS + 40's vs new character the difference was "4" in 30 seconds. Archery with 100 archery + 55's sub skills vs new character it was extremely close, between 2-3 arrows in 30 seconds. It's almost like stats aren't affecting weapons at all except for damage.
  • Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 02:28:35 pm by Ivar_theBoneless

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #1
My best guess is that there is some sort of "speed cap" based on your weapon skill level and that's why you see a difference in speed at higher skill levels but you don't see it at lower ones when having different quickness.

I do agree that it is counterintuitive but, to be honest, apart from empirical tests (and slowing down the grinding on a new weapon), it doesn't make that much of a difference: you'll get your weapon skill higher much faster than you'll get a high quickness stat

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #2
I believe this is on the same level as your other thread about quickness whereas your conclusion conflicts the outdated tooltips on things like the quickness attribute.

Your "new" dwarf character is faster as u mentioned in the analysis because of the main character -2% deficiency.

Couldn't this be tested without an alt?  You wouldn't be testing the same weapon skill obviously but say 1handed sword(skill1) vs club(skill100) with 100 quickness, no titles or gear.  The club should swing faster than the sword if your topic title is true.  I would automatically assume they both swing faster than a real "base stats and skills, no titles" character due only to quickness attribute rather than the weapon skills by themselves, historically.  Which I believe is the concern of this thread according to topic title.

I have always thought quickness primarily factored melee attack speed and never(or very little) the weapon skill itself.  If this change slipped by me, I'd assume it was way back when they were frontloading everything.  Again, just another returning suggestion to the devs to update all tooltips, ability, spells, attribute mouseover, racial passives, etc... everything should be updated to detail it's current mechanic, feature, or accurate description. <3
  • Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 12:42:44 pm by Mordisk

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #3
Couldn't this be tested without an alt?  You wouldn't be testing the same weapon skill obviously but say 1handed sword(skill1) vs club(skill100) with 100 quickness, no titles or gear.  The club should swing faster than the sword if your topic title is true
I already did this test on my main some months ago when i had 1hb club to 100 and i switched to 1h axe....the axe was definitely swinging much slower on the same char compared to the club. It appeared to me, though, that even a few skill ups in the melee weapon skill started improving the speed at which i was swinging pretty fast. I don't remember noticing such an increase back when i was leveling up 1hb and my quickness was lower.
So, i definitely think there is a swing speed that is determined by the weapon skill, but it is "capped" by your current quickness. So a high weapon skill on a low quickness char would equate to a slower swing speed (because you'd hit the quickness cap sooner) while, on a high quickness character, you'd notice swing speed increases while skilling up (because now the "cap" is the weapon skill itself)

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #4
@dariobrun leveling meele skill increases its speed and damage. mastery increases its damage. this has been known.

another pointless test you habe done and came out with a result that your not even sure of.

go back to school kid.
I dueled him once and was in control first half of the fight and then food buff wore out and not noticing lost, so he did win but hes by no means any better a player than I.

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #5
@dariobrun leveling meele skill increases its speed and damage. mastery increases its damage. this has been known.

another pointless test you habe done and came out with a result that your not even sure of.

go back to school kid.

Base weapon skill and mastery is combined now for a frontloaded 1-200 skill. That information from the ub3rgames blog wyrx posted in the SKD forums...

@dariobrun I'll chk that maybe it does cap it instead of what you would think would it would do.

Follow up- debuffing quickness did not effect my great sword weapon swing speed. It only damaged my health/stam. Taking the new character from 17 quickness to 0 does not change his numbers either.
  • Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 12:56:49 am by Ivar_theBoneless

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #6
really? when I debuff  quickness on myself I attack ~10% slower.

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #7
really? when I debuff  quickness on myself I attack ~10% slower.

It doesn't. It doesn't even effect archery shooting speed. It looks like it for half a second (or I thought it did) till I watched the play back. And when you can really count the frames recorded I found it doesn't

After fooling around with it more I'm wondering if stats are affecting anything currently except hp-stam-mana

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #8
really? when I debuff  quickness on myself I attack ~10% slower.
Mmm are you sure about that? cause i tested both the quickness debuff and the water melee slow and i found out that the quickness debuff was basically doing nothing at all to me either (or the difference was so small it was almost unnoticeable).

I tested it with 100 1haxe skill, 37 mastery, 75 quickness, ini a bone/leather mixed armor; i just swinged for 30s and counted the swings and my result were:
-base: 29 swings in 30s
-slow debuff (lv50....but doesn't change much in magnitude with leveling up, so it will basically be the same even at 100): 26 swings in 30s
-quickness debuff: 29 swings in 30s

I was actually surprised to see the slow debuff being so bad, honestly: the visual impression when i used it was that i was swinging quite a lot slower than normal....but in the end it came out that i was losing just around 1 swing every 10 seconds....definitely not a game changer....which is why i gave up and switched from water title.

On quickness i was actually expecting to see little/no difference at all since even the "feeling" of it was that is was having little impact....i even tested it on different teammates and, honestly, they always told me that they didn't even noticed i debuffed them.

Buff/debuffs (apart for haste/ironskin) are definitely way too weak right now to be worth using, sadly....

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #9
because game is broken by new devs,and devs is mad experimentators.
this is not df development

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #10
@Ub3rgames please moderate these from doing ingame tests and spreading false information about the game.

its bad for the health of the game, when someone who cant do tests in a controlled environment posts their results.

This guys doesnt even have the same titles on both characters.

edit: cleared up language not to offend the snowflakes
I dueled him once and was in control first half of the fight and then food buff wore out and not noticing lost, so he did win but hes by no means any better a player than I.

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #11
@Ub3rgames please moderate these from doing ingame tests and spreading false information about the game.

its bad for the health of the game, when someone who cant do tests in a controlled environment posts their results.

This guys doesnt even have the same titles on both characters.

edit: cleared up language not to offend the snowflakes

title character vs a new character is the whole point of this example JFK.

If we have been telling new players since launch that its important to get your quickness up for melee pvp when in fact it doesnt have any effect at all except on your STAM and they are wasting meditation points and time on something that is increasing the grind unnecessarily or its bugged................. is important to know.

FFS this is why I have you on ignore Abbo like the other idiots.


  • Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:37:50 pm by Ivar_theBoneless

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #12
hmm interesting because it for sure was heavily felt when someone buffed you to 100 quickness in old darkfall when you were under 100.

The only cap that comes to mind is 10 skill levels per weapon rank(but that is r0 right? :S). And that was cap for damage only, maybe they somehow hard-locked attack speed when they were implementing armor speed buffs?

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #13
hmm interesting because it for sure was heavily felt when someone buffed you to 100 quickness in old darkfall when you were under 100.

The only cap that comes to mind is 10 skill levels per weapon rank(but that is r0 right? :S). And that was cap for damage only, maybe they somehow hard-locked attack speed when they were implementing armor speed buffs?


No idea, i've tried to get a response from ub3rgames because it changes it from one of the first stats you should work on in my guide I'm doing to 4th? Maybe if it doesn't have any effect on weapon-archery speed, just stam.

Re: why isn't quickness effecting swing speed when weapon skill is 1? (video)
Reply #14
bump so people see the update