Skip to main content

Topic: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells (Read 3325 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #105
I can't figure out if you're trolling or actually that thick.

The pure crafters ALREADY lose all the mage titles.  That's like 30% DPS they're ALREADY losing.  That is huge, HUGE.

So you're saying "ooooh it's just FINE they ALSO now lose all secondary effects from the bolt they've invested huge time into".  Okay.  I'm about done speaking with you, have a great day.

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #106
Your argument makes no sense.  Ignoring the many Maluses of the melee archer guy, he also doesn't get the +6% casting speed, damage, mana efficiency and Duration of the Titled Arcane caster.  Not to mention all the other +spell bonuses a pure mage will get that a melee archer guy will get.

Bring a melee archer to meet my mage and we'll have a sacred missile contest and see how it goes.  Even WITHOUT the Arcane Title.




The crafters in my clan are pissed with this Cursed bolt change.  They've invested a LOT of training and meditation into Necromancy, only to suddenly find that they're now using the worst bolt in the game, by far, for those who have all crafting titles. 

Keep going in this direction and half our clan will quit.  I'm not saying it's the wrong direction, since different gamers like different things... but don't think that this is a positive change for ALL gamers, because it absolutely is not.

The magic changes proposed and slowly implemented is pushing a system where you choose the magic school depending what type of specialized damage and effect you want to do: raw dps, mana, stam, slight health drain, cc, ext...

Just like each melee weapon has a specialized speed, damage, reach and skills that are extremely important like disable, WW, PA. But some of that stuff is locked behind a title.

Magic schools should follow the same set of rules, you get a portion of that magic schools of effects, but not all of them, and definitely not the most important ones. Those should be the reward for people who take a title in that school just like a melee weapon.

@Rimamok its 12% not 30% I posted that pretty in depth thread a few months ago about this. Crafters lose access to abilities, the percent of damage and effects they lose is minimal and for the most part can be offset with enchantments. You're not losing a fight because you don't have a title and that extra percentile of damage
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 08:06:34 am by Ivar_theBoneless

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #107
its 12% not 30% I posted that pretty in depth thread a few months ago about this.

It's not even close to 12%.

Damage:   6% for title + 3% for scholar + 4% for potent = 13%

Speed:   6% for title + 3% for scholar + 4% for Quick Cast = 13%.

Since they are multiplicative (confirmed by Ub3r) the total DPS boost is  1.13^2 = 28%

28% DPS boost PLUS mana efficiency and duration.

Yes, it really is THAT bad already for people who aren't titled.  It doesn't need to get any worse, which is exactly what you're all pumping hard for.,
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 09:43:48 am by Rimamok

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #108
Ridiculousness! Take one fucking combat Title at least.  Why you even have a clan with so many people with so many crafting Titles boggles the mind... and the guy thinks I'm trolling or thick....

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #109
its 12% not 30% I posted that pretty in depth thread a few months ago about this.

It's not even close to 12%.

Damage:   6% for title + 3% for scholar + 4% for potent = 13%

Speed:   6% for title + 3% for scholar + 4% for Quick Cast = 13%.

Since they are multiplicative (confirmed by Ub3r) the total DPS boost is  1.13^2 = 28%

28% DPS boost PLUS mana efficiency and duration.

Yes, it really is THAT bad already for people who aren't titled.  It doesn't need to get any worse, which is exactly what you're all pumping hard for.,

Where do they say it's multiplicative? I'm pretty sure all bonuses are added (+) together before they hit the damage multiplier not multiplied (X) and then applied toward the damage.

And however they're added you can't take the speed and have it increase your damage bonus exponentially like that, that's just not how it works.

Edit- and you should be encouraging people to take a least one combat title, it's a PVP Conquest game, not an open-world crafting game. You can't both go against the grain of what the game is and then complain that you can't do one of the basic features of the game because you went against it
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:51:03 pm by Ivar_theBoneless

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #110
Bonuses from titles are additive.

For damage:
6% (school/weapon) + 3% (scholar/warrior) + 4% (potent/brawler) = 13%

Then do the same for cast/attack speed

And how do both of them apply to the DPS calculation? Multiplicative (you attack 13% faster for 13% more damage = 27,7% higher DPS)
And that's against a target with 0 protections. Once you start calculating it with protections, it becomes a much bigger boost (percentage-wise).


Also, bonuses from Titles ARE multiplicative with bonuses from Gear.
So... 13% dmg from title times 15% from Exarch set and it becomes scary.
(for those curious, it's a 68,8% DPS boost vs nakeds)
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:53:19 pm by Wyverex
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #111
Also, bonuses from Titles ARE multiplicative with bonuses from Gear.
So... 13% dmg from title times 15% from Exarch set and it becomes scary.
(for those curious, it's a 68,8% DPS boost vs nakeds)
As I said many times in the past - bonuses from Titles should not be multiplicative with bonuses from Gear. They should be additive. @Ub3rgames forced us into classes with this shit.

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #112
As a Water mage I can tell you. Water isn't that bad but water sigs are weak. The r90 casts much faster, has a knock up. All of the spells do 40% damage. It is a short range school with a good ray and a good 90. The 50 also causes a small knock up. The signatures need to be buffed.
I am a water mage too and i agree with you indeed (maybe i wasn't clear in my previous reply).
The problem, though, is that exactly due to the signatures still being too weak, then water magic gets outshined by other schools.
If you're not titled in it you can always get better spells from other schools (r90 from air, r50 from fire, for example. Ray is the same as air, but lighting prots are a bit lower on metal armor so air ray is still slighty better too, not by much, but still) and, with the signatures being that weak, there is not much interest in titleing in it (or, better said, there are better schools to title in).
The knockups are a bit too weak too imho to actually being a factor (just for example giving a boost to the knockup effect ONLY if you are titled in it would make titleing in water much more interesting).

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #113
Where do they say it's multiplicative? I'm pretty sure all bonuses are added (+) together before they hit the damage multiplier not multiplied (X) and then applied toward the damage.
The way it works is that since you hit 13% faster, then the 13% damage bonus is applied to EACH of your hits, including to the extra 13% hits that are due to the speed bonus.

At the 13% level, the "multiplicative effect" is rather small.  E.g. without multiplication it would be 13+13=26.  But in truth it's actually 28, very slightly higher.

As Wyverex notes, the multiplicative effect becomes somewhat larger once you start to add in Armor bonuses.

and you should be encouraging people to take a least one combat title, it's a PVP Conquest game
This is a topic that I disagree with you intensely on.  IMO this is a "different gamers prefer different things" topic and it's clear that it will be fruitless for me to engage you in a discussion on this.  One thing is certain, is that if they change the game to be the way that YOU want it, almost all of our clan will leave.  It's Ub3r's game, they can make it what they want, but that fact will not change.
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 03:53:09 pm by Rimamok

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #114
Your crafters can take any other bolt they like and meditate it to 50 in less than a week... and if they are grinding on power hour they will be at 75 not too much later. That is equivalent to 90 in DFO, which should be fine for PVE. Sure,  it takes a few med points and a week or two, but it should not be that big of a deal. Our crafters who PVE are always working up one spell or another.

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #115
Let me put it in a way that hopefully the three of you can appreciate.

Mages get 28% more raw DPS than a pure crafter would.  I already consider that to be too much, and you dont, fine.

Ub3r wants to INCREASE the bonus for specializing.  I don't like that, and you do, fine.

I want to play a game where even a dedicated crafter can cast spells and not be TOO gimped.  I consider 30% already borderline "too gimped", and you don't, fine.

I will not play the game in the way it's going, and you will.

I would recommend not wasting your time trying to inform me of everything a crafter COULD do.  I already know all this, you're not providing new information, nor will it change my opinion on what type of game I want to play.  You all seem to be somehow phrasing this in the vein of "No I am correct because blah blah blah".  There is no "CORRECT" here, there are only opinions on what makes an enjoyable game.  You can make 100 more pages saying the same things over and over and it won't make a game that EVERYONE likes.
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:14:10 pm by Rimamok

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #116
A mage only gets that max dps increase with 1 school, scholar and potent tho. And then its 9% to magnitude/cast speed/mana eff and +4% magnitude. For another 4% castspeed you need another titel.
Your 28% dps increase or whatever is only possible for VERY dedicated single school mages.

Besides that this whole dps discussion is bullshit anyway. At least for pvp.
But yes, full crafters are weaker than specialized mages or melees cause of the missing titel skills/spells mostly. But they CHOOSE that playstyle. And they can still switch around to mage or melee however they please which is an advantage as well.

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #117
A small tidbit that's rather important when talking about ranged DPS, and especially magic ranged DPS - cast speed is quite often wasted, as you hold your attacks while you aim.

Don't get me wrong - cast speed is plenty useful. But let's not get crazy about theoretical DPS. Nobody has 100% hit rate, and nobody releases all spells as soon as they are done loading.
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

  • gosti
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #118
28% vs a pure single school mage. I literally know only 1 person who's a pure single school mage.

Most ppl have 2 or 3 magic schools. 3 schools equals 5% more dmg and 5% faster casting. What is it? 12% more dps?

@Wyverex
If you're not "releasing all spells as soon as they are done loading" in close combat you've already lost. :)
(With some exceptions of course)
  • Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:25:03 pm by gosti

Re: Game Update 2.1: Necromancy and signature spells
Reply #119
@Wyverex
If you're not "releasing all spells as soon as they are done loading" in close combat you've already lost. :)
(With some exceptions of course)
If I'm in close combat, I've already lost ;)
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club