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Topic: SHIELD DISCUSSION (Read 1732 times) previous topic - next topic

  • memes
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #30
I consider myself a true Leftclick Hero, but if I see a guy using a 1h+shield I will not engage in 1v1 with that person until I get him lower on health via archery, as my Greatsword will lose that fight, hard.

You might be able to beat a 1h/shield with a Greataxe if you land the Power Attack, but Greatclubs, Greatswords, and Polearms, are too shit in the ND meta and and can rarely stand on their own without archery to soften up the target first.

Plenty of room for balancing here, and it'd help if the formerly mentioned 2h weapons had a Power Attack worth a damn. Maybe they'll do it in the patch early next week.

Then you simply dont master the dance, why not capitalize on your reach advantage? Its many 2h users that manage to trade hit for hit and a hit for hit trade the 1h lose. If you stand spinning into their hitbox, the 1h stand a chance due to speed.
Nothing to dance if the 1h/shield guy can be almost stationary and attack and block via animation cancelling.

The step-in-step-out only works against people who literally never move and don't know to hold their attacks to improve their sync.

The range difference is not as big as you claim. It's only about 0.25 meters.

Then that is a timed parrying issue and not the passive protections. The reach difference is significant and very noticeable and carried by the arc. The point is with proper movement, the 1h cant utilize the advantage of higer swing speed, cause you will move out of reach loading up ur next swing

Less reach, less arc, lower damage what is the benefits of going 1h?
You know the DPS is only similar to 2h GS due to swing speed and the help of the shields passives, people seems to forget that.

I really liked to know where have you done your testings? Damage is similar you say? I fight our clans 1 hander users (which by the way all starting to switch clubs) and they hit me in thickkleather Fp head boots gloves combo for around 25-29 damage depending on what level wep and enchant they have. Now on the same time I'm hitting them in mostly FPset with some thickleather for 15 damage with JB Q4 enchant. For me to win them relies sololy on the fact that I avoid melee completely and try to get hit in every now and then but mostly just using ranged. And against good 1handers when they time block I make 2 damage when they hit 25 to 29 damage.

Personally I think 1handers would be fine if they removed the enchant slot but with good enchant it's just way too absorbing. Focus should be more on timed blocking and not just rewarding mindless swinging with such a high damage absorbing.

But as you can see, every one saying everything is fine or even asking for boost with 1handers are the ones using them and those that say it's not are 2handers since it's basically counter build to them. Mages don't care since they don't melee and clearly it's easier to avoid melee against one handers and mage damage is unchanged wetter it's 1hander or two hander they are facing since both try to block some of the spells and range fights with bows.

But as a two hander you make just the same damage ranged but you are almost completely refuted to go for melee and you just have to try to kite. Only good thing is there still very few that utilized timed blocking well with 1hander.

1hander is so broken op nobody bothers with timed block because they autowin melee anyway lol

Last 5 vcps I went to I only saw airarcane boneset mages with r60 1handers

Whole alfar clans use that same shit because it takes no skill to use

Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #31
1h+shield auto-wins against all other melee types, even if you are a mage

reach is irrelevant after reach was changed

either change how shield/resistances/blocking works, or buff 2h dps

Arent you using daggers? If so, isnt trading hits still in your favour against a 1h and shield user? It should be, right? 

  • Giant
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #32
@MKH that's not right. Seeing that we tested it. Having the same gear, same slashing enchant same titles, and you will see near the same damage. Making out 1h does double the damage is just retardedly funny. If Ub3games wasn't fucking useless or bankrupt, that could have added Rings and Necklace back into game by now which would make the shield enchant slot, undesirable! 

I have no plans to log on to this dead game, but I welcome vids showing the same setup where 1h does double damage?????

Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #33
@MKH that's not right. Seeing that we tested it. Having the same gear, same slashing enchant same titles, and you will see near the same damage. Making out 1h does double the damage is just retardedly funny. 

So with 1h and shield vs 2h, you get timed parry option and 1 more enchantable slot loosing reach, right? Dps is the same when trading hits
 

  • Giant
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #34
@MKH that's not right. Seeing that we tested it. Having the same gear, same slashing enchant same titles, and you will see near the same damage. Making out 1h does double the damage is just retardedly funny. 

So with 1h and shield vs 2h, you get timed parry option and 1 more enchantable slot losing reach, right? Dps is the same when trading hits
 

Arc, range and DPS vs anyone not having shield out. (Even 1h shield get caught with a bow or staff out) Vs Mages 2h is far superior.
You can time parry with a 2h lol HELLLOOOOOOOO have you played this game?????
  • Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 01:56:35 pm by Giant

  • MKH
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #35
@MKH that's not right. Seeing that we tested it. Having the same gear, same slashing enchant same titles, and you will see near the same damage. Making out 1h does double the damage is just retardedly funny. If Ub3games wasn't fucking useless or bankrupt, that could have added Rings and Necklace back into game by now which would make the shield enchant slot, undesirable! 

I have no plans to log on to this dead game, but I welcome vids showing the same setup where 1h does double damage?????

Have to test again tonight if I get clanies to test with. But numbers were just like that but it could be cause they were using clubs. But then again I doubt it since I didn't have slahinh enchant on my gear. They enchants were piercing encumbrance and slahsing on shield. And damage were what I wrote but as said they were wearing more heavy pieces than me. But anyways in any fight I could not go into melee at all since they hit 10 more per swing.

And gear were shredder with mostly FP some thickleather on them. And q4 slashing enchant.
  • Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 02:37:08 pm by MKH
Viil Taja

  • gosti
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #36
Timed parry with 2h isn't as viable as with 1handers because:
- less dmg reduction with perfect block
- slower weapons, meaning can't timed block every 1hander swing and still hit your enemy. You can block every 2hander swing and still hit with 1hander+shield. (we're talking 1h vs 2h here, right?)

I agree 1handers are MUCH worse vs any mage. Actually when i saw 1hander user as a mage i intentionally pushed him very close range so he changed from bow to 1hander trying to land that 1 hit and still failing because of knockups and his weak range/arc.

I also agree fighting 1hander users as a 2hander user sucks big time...

Rock-paper-scissors.

  • Giant
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #37
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now! 

  • MKH
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #38
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.
Viil Taja

Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #39
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.

Stam Eff isnt as important as it use to be with leather regen and title modifiers, not to mention brawler, stam eff is more important to hybrids than melee archers.

  • gosti
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Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #40
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.

Stam Eff isnt as important as it use to be with leather regen and title modifiers, not to mention brawler, stam eff is more important to hybrids than melee archers.

wrong

Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #41
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.

Stam Eff isnt as important as it use to be with leather regen and title modifiers, not to mention brawler, stam eff is more important to hybrids than melee archers.

wrong

Well when I make armor for melee archers they generally are less interested in stam effec than other enchants because of my above points, so not wrong and 'isnt as important' as it use to be, doesnt mean 'useless'.

But thanks for sharing...

  • gosti
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #42
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.

Stam Eff isnt as important as it use to be with leather regen and title modifiers, not to mention brawler, stam eff is more important to hybrids than melee archers.

wrong

Well when I make armor for melee archers they generally are less interested in stam effec than other enchants because of my above points, so not wrong and 'isnt as important' as it use to be, doesnt mean 'useless'.

But thanks for sharing...

Still more important than what? Piercing? Please..

Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #43
Not many players would wear a bludgeoning enchant, myself included. Where Biggo (I take it you're testing with him) users q4 slashing enchant, because he faces 90% of the server using slashing damage.

You can't test vs his setup, unless you use the same enchanted gear for his damage, the same keen on weapon and have the same titles. Bludgeoning does more damage to heavies, that's always been the case.

Get a mage, and compare the range, arc and dps you can do!

This is dnd, they made it into a mini class game, where builds would have their + & - vs other builds.

Someone picking all melee titles is going to do more dps in melee than someone not taking all melee titles.

Rings and necklaces should be ingame from day 1, if removing the extra slot, stops all this nonsense about 1h vs 2h, then remove it.

1h would still wear a slashing enchant, but they would lose stam enchant. And no one would take bludgeoning enchant, so it won't change that much. 2h would still be the best all round weapon! Just like they're now!

No need to go that hostile with it. Removing enchant slot would change quite a bit the situation, I mean if you get around 4 less damage cause of  the enchant it's a very significant change. We were in comparable gear melee wise. In ranged I had worse gear since I didn't have piercing enchant but on melee wise we were in same gear essentially.  I would not enchant bludgeoning prot for my gear so he would always hit the same to me and in melee weps we had equal rank and enchant.

Now if you take away shield slot for enchant and then he would go slashing over stam eff I could Stat game him since he would definitely struggle with stam the longer the fight. Now that he has q4 or 3 stam eff enchant he ain't gonna stam out. And I'm not here making any ultimatum or saying game is completely imbalanced I'm just saying currently 1hander is bit too strong in melee against other melee types since you dont  have to play timed parry to make it efficient.  So with out the enchant slot it would be closer in balance I think but as said before it paper rock shiccors atm. And 1hander counters 2handers basically same as mage is a lot stronger against 1hander than 2hander.

Stam Eff isnt as important as it use to be with leather regen and title modifiers, not to mention brawler, stam eff is more important to hybrids than melee archers.

wrong

Well when I make armor for melee archers they generally are less interested in stam effec than other enchants because of my above points, so not wrong and 'isnt as important' as it use to be, doesnt mean 'useless'.

But thanks for sharing...

Still more important than what? Piercing? Please..


Yes piercing and slashing are the two most requested, also infliction and holy .

  • MKH
  • [*][*][*]
Re: SHIELD DISCUSSION
Reply #44
In full leather or with just couple of pieces heavy, Ye can go with out stam eff and it won't be such a big deal, unless facing good water air mage. But the situation I was referring to was mostly heavy some leather players and for those stam eff is pretty much a must. Those that don't have lt I can almost every time fight so they stam out and can't even imagine how they could survive against water air mage. So I'm fairly sure they would not go with slashing over stam eff.

Personally I still think even in leather I'd rather go with stam eff over slashing since against water air mage it's a struggle to keep up with stam even in full leather.
Viil Taja