Darkfall: New Dawn

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 02:32:08 am

Title: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 02:32:08 am
Reds seems to be hated and people are claiming that the reds destroy the game by driving away the new players. 
There seems to be no end to the punishment REDs should get.
As a red player I get a bit worried, maybe this game is "Conquest only"

Is the goal to remove red players from the game by punishing them hard enough?
Or should it be a viable career to be a RED?  

I hope the latter, as I Like playing as RED. I would simply not play the game if it did not facilitate this game play.
Consider this list of misconceptions and facts about REDs:

1. Misconception about driving away new players.
As a RED, there is no point in killing the new players. They have shit loot! 
The good loot is found around high end spawns, farmed by the Elite.
The only RED killing a new Blue is a new RED, which is quite fair tbh. If people get discouraged from getting killed early on, then they will leave this game anyway. Plenty of games that offers a more "fun" coop experience.
And lastly, if the current state is that RED players just kill to kill, not to loot, then the problem is that everything is worthless in this game.

2. REDs break up the grind and provide some adrenaline to the victims. Many times the blue players simply get away, or even manage to fight back and kill the RED. This is an improvement to an otherwise boring grind.

3. REDs limit the Altfall problem by killing gathering alts.
Why should it be safe to put an account to farm iron or wood outside of city without consequence?

4. REDs are severly punished as is. Its a bloody hard life. The most of the day you run around searching for someone to kill, or running away/hiding from someone. This is severely inefficient! The ones who gather in clans and farm get a ton of resources and skill points while the RED almost nothing. REDs will lag so much behind in skills that their always at disadvantage.

5. REDs are not interested in taking away more than needed. In fact, it would be better to leave the farming gear to the victim to make sure there is someone farming the spawn next time.

5. REDs make things more valuable. By limiting the "safe farming" options, things are harder to get and therefore more valuable.

6. REDs often loose themselves. When you travel around solo or in a small group, it is inevitable that you will run into a big group of players who just rolls over you. There is absolutely nothing you can do, and there tend to be a lot of these around. You cant be in a big group yourself because it would not be enough loot to split.

And from the current discussions I gather that:
1. Reds should loose their meditation points. To make sure its not viable to be a RED.
2. Loot should be damaged upon death. To make sure that the RED player do not have the opportunity to get decent equipment. Taking away all possibility to give or sell the Equipment back to the victim, and frankly making loot worthless.
 

It seems that everyone is confused. The problem is not RED players, the problem might be the elitist clan players who maxed out their characters and have nothing to do, then go red. With max skills they have an easy time killing everyone and their not even interested in loot because their bank is full and nothing is of value anymore. 
This problem can only be addressed by making things more rare, and to create some resource sinks.

So again, should REDs be allowed to play this game in a viable way?




 

 

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 02:35:01 am
No benefit to being blue when you're in a clan, all it does is limit your PVP content, which is why everyone went Red in DFO, and is why everyone will go Red and get a blue alt to travel to sanguine (if the clan really needs anything from there anyways).

The only reason I went Red is because I wanted to fight wolves on yssam at the start of the game, and seeing as how PVP is pretty much the only decent content Darkfall provides...

The only reason I kill noobs is I happen upon them as I travel around, and seeing as how my bank is in humanlands, and I'm stuck in humanlands... They wouldn't make me go red anyways, since I'm Alfar.

There really is no reason for me to even be blue, I don't even live near Alfar lands lol.

You want a meaningful alignment system, hardcode the Race Alliance, otherwise, *fart noise*.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: SoethThoth on March 03, 2018, 02:37:59 am
They are trying to foster cooperation among the races for the racial wars which will be entry level large scale PVP when they patch in warfronts.

If you want to kill your own race or its allies then your life will be made difficult, but its just a more arduous playstyle, not that they are trying to get rid of reds.

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Mycke on March 03, 2018, 03:30:07 am
The problem is not reds the problem is the missing mechanics to deal with them so only good players can play that way and not just every scrub with a chance at a lucky kill or adhd kid too lazy to hunt other races.

The game needs some reds and aracs but only 1/4 or less of pop so the world is fundamentally civilized, but right now people are playing with the current mechanics and more and more are going red, many of which will be whining up a storm once they have to pay the cost of that freedom.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 03:32:15 am
whining up a storm once they have to pay the cost of that freedom.

By cost you mean waiting 30 days to pray to go blue and by whining you mean quitting.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: TripBunny on March 03, 2018, 03:37:36 am
whining up a storm once they have to pay the cost of that freedom.

By cost you mean waiting 30 days to pray to go blue and by whining you mean quitting.

Yet another derail by Zero Lifts.

If you had read Mycke's post you would see that it is very well rounded, as he describe a genuine concern while highlighting the blatant and obvious complaining from those who are in fact abusing said system.

Sort yourself out. #jordanpeterson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjpuxiV-_Es
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 03:50:28 am
Yet another derail by Zero Lifts.

If you had read Mycke's post you would see that it is very well rounded, as he describe a genuine concern while highlighting the blatant and obvious complaining from those who are in fact abusing said system.

Sort yourself out. #jordanpeterson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjpuxiV-_Es

I seriously need to get that restraining order.

If you understood how the game works, you'd understand that any reason harsh enough to not be red would mean no one would be red, and if that change were to occur, people would have to wait a month to go back to blue, which just isn't practical, especially since all it takes is 1 blue to fuck up that month and set you back.

But again, you're just a random yes-man shill that doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

More anime shitposts trip, seriously dude.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: SoethThoth on March 03, 2018, 03:52:01 am
Hey guys what do youll think of my new avatar?

Hey @tripbunny you have a cool new avatar too

neato

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 04:21:11 am
So one problem is that there is no incentives to be blue.
So rather than punishing poor RED roaches, how about simply making blue clans have a benefit instead, for example, how about enabling the option to put guard towers on cities and holding of blue clans?

And of course the RED/BLUE clan mix should not be allowed. But there will still be blue alts trading with reds, outside of clan.
This is impossible to limit.
And were supposed to be able to trade, preferably at the chaos city black markets.

As for the sociopaths your describing, I really don't think they are able to make such a big impact.
With or without them, this game does not shine inside of starter cities.
The new player protection is  already fixing this, if insufficient it can be prolonged.


Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 04:25:32 am
whining up a storm once they have to pay the cost of that freedom.

By cost you mean waiting 30 days to pray to go blue and by whining you mean quitting.

30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.   It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.   Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.    

I agree, I also think if a red dies their character should be deleted.

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Helwyr on March 03, 2018, 04:28:42 am
A lot of things listed in the OP as benefits of Reds, is achievable by Blue players of other Racial alliances. Few have a problem with Reds existing, rather the lack of consequences for being one in previous Darkfalls. Ub3rgames is fixing that, and it's an absolute must for their goal of racial alliance warfare focus, and more trust between players within each alliance.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 04:38:08 am
Hrmm, how did EVE tackle the issue, HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

How did Albion tackle the issue, HRMMMMMMMMMMM. LET'S PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND BRAINSTORM.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 04:47:33 am
First, they did not make races red to each other, DF however is designed so that you can freely grief a Mahirim if you are an Alfar fx.

Secondly, they let them play, they had low security systems and even no security systems with  "chaos stations" for players to live in.
The safe area was however big enough for players to thrive in for a long time, before going to space without security.
And in the end the big alliances made the deepest of low security space somewhat like "player provided" security.

And then they had war declarations, allowing clans to kill each other without alignment consequence.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Seronys on March 03, 2018, 05:04:11 am
Hrmm, how did EVE tackle the issue, HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

How did Albion tackle the issue, HRMMMMMMMMMMM. LET'S PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND BRAINSTORM.

We don't need high sec space or whatever it's called.  If a red player cannot bank in / around the main cities via blue alts, the problem is mostly solved.   It means reds can only pass through (raid), not live there by proxy of the blue alt.

This still allows danger for new-ish players (or more roleplay oriented types, whatever) but doesn't let a cancer get established and grow.

If a red force can actually obtain a holding in a homeland area, then it will become a fixed target for constant attack and sieging.

I'm curious what you think is stopping a red force from doing such. Especially since We've been doing it since server up.

Do you expect RA clans to do that? Because that literally sounds like a reason to go Red, and not be blue, lol, sounds like fun.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: ruckus98 on March 03, 2018, 12:28:25 pm
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.   It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.   Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.    

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: TripBunny on March 03, 2018, 12:50:50 pm
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?

Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: ruckus98 on March 03, 2018, 01:16:04 pm
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?

Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.


 

That's literally what his post said.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Nataz on March 03, 2018, 01:31:48 pm
If you're red reroll or live with the consequences. Not that they didnt warn you up front. You wanna be a bad guy, go be a bad guy to the 3-5 racial enemies. Winter is comming...
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Nuyur on March 03, 2018, 01:33:40 pm
It doesnt matter what race your killing character is on if you use an alt to supply it.
Be an alfar killing dwarves, or a red dwarf.
You still get to restock right next to them with goods bought off of their market, selling their own shit back to them.

the problem isnt racial warfare (surprisingly). Its that alts get used to avoid the conditions that would make being red a hard choice.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: TripBunny on March 03, 2018, 01:47:20 pm
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?


Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.


 

That's literally what his post said.

Hence the reason I clarify by typing no one is TRULY advocating. He is obviously just stating an opinion, not a definitive change that is going to implemented..
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Oriphus on March 03, 2018, 02:15:58 pm
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 03:01:08 pm
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.

This is exactly what I am addressing...
Why do people think that RED players should be penalized?
Isn't being kill on sight to everyone out there, not able to access the main market and not being able to access most banks enough penalty?

Seriously...
Penalizing RED players so harshly will only make sure that 100% of the red players are simply troll alts for the elite maxed out blue clans. There will be no space for the individuals or small groups of outlaws. Consequently removing all PVP and intrigues from the individual players and small clans, both blue and red, who don't take part in conquest.

Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them.

Of course DF could be a good game without the REDs, but then it should be told us in all honesty that DF is about conquest, and RED players are not welcome.


 



 
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: elektrofux on March 03, 2018, 03:18:33 pm
From the Game Info:

"
Choices and consequences

A character's alignment represents its standing with its racial faction.
All characters start being blue (positive alignment), and all negative actions towards allied players will result in losing alignment and becoming red.
On any loss of alignment, a character's track record is reset to zero, more than halving any quest rewards for multiple weeks.Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Oriphus on March 03, 2018, 03:21:55 pm
I so far have not seen any real effort to give red players any meaningful penalties and the alignment system is one alt away from being completely useless. The only thing I see keeping racial wars going at the moment are the players desperation to hold onto a promised but lacking feature.

This is exactly what I am addressing...
Why do people think that RED players should be penalized?
Isn't being kill on sight to everyone out there, not able to access the main market and not being able to access most banks enough penalty?

Seriously...
Penalizing RED players so harshly will only make sure that 100% of the red players are simply troll alts for the elite maxed out blue clans. There will be no space for the individuals or small groups of outlaws. Consequently removing all PVP and intrigues from the individual players and small clans, both blue and red, who don't take part in conquest.

Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them.

Of course DF could be a good game without the REDs, but then it should be told us in all honesty that DF is about conquest, and RED players are not welcome.


 



 

I have no time for red players at all. There are plenty of enemies against your race who are red to you.

"Imagine how boring race chat would be without the occasional "reds south of Bel Melek" and the following posse running to hunt them."

Players who are not your race are red, the above still happens. I want New Dawns Factional race wars to be a thing. If there are no meaningful penalties (as it is currently) there really isn't any factional warfare, just the same old clan warfare.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 04:40:54 pm
But penalizing the red characters don't remove the problem with blue alts, it simply makes it mandatory to have a blue alt.
Trading also does not solve it.
Destroying loot upon death only makes it less lucrative to be a honest criminal, making sure REDs are only alts of the elite who wants to grief without looting.
Barring meditation, only makes people grind their character to a certain level before going red. Again catering for the top clan elitists while the individual criminals who just want to steal some wood and sell it to someone cannot progress.

And to comment about the racial wars. They cannot ever become the peak of the game because there is never any prospect of a race winning over another. This does not allow for the important politics meta in DF.
Clan/alliance ward over cities must be the peak of the game while racial wars should be there to entertain players who want to do something else, besides creating own content by being a "honest" criminal.
Besides there is plenty of games like that, Look at Warhammer, while having good pvp mechanics, and "arranged pvp" they still failed.

Again, the problem is not the players who truly play as criminals.
The problem is the elite, fully developed clan players who either go red with a maxed out character, or create an alt, just to grief.
None of mentioned penalties can prevent them from doing so, and their not even interested in loot, so finding a way to make reds unable to trade with blue alts will not solve the problem.

Frankly, as a true criminal its more fun to be able to sell my loot on a market place or interact with a real player than to waste my time with a crafting/trading alt.
As a criminal I find the fun in the cat and mouse game, mostly being outnumbered, trying to avoid detection in order to gain good loot from someone who is not careful.

I wish there was a way to enforce 1 character per player. But as long as it cant, we have to live with some issues...
These issues are certainly not breaking the game. For my part, I think the only DFND lacks currently to be a success, is a healthy economy, revolving around equipment, not skillpoints,  making pvp mean something.
And I think the Devs are working on it as we speak...


 
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Ktorr on March 03, 2018, 04:46:29 pm
From the Game Info:

"
...Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"

Except when you have a blue alt that does all your buying and selling for you, made especially easy with the shared local clan bank at a wilderness bank and/or the ability trade without alignment hit between red and blue players just outside the city limits.
Blue alts will be less of a factor when the ARAC changes take effect.
A Blue Alt will become grey, and while he will still be able to access a Clan Bank, he will not be able to access NPC Cities.
Even if he is not in an ARAC Clan, having a Red in your Clan, or be allied to an ARAC Clan will have the same effect.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Oriphus on March 03, 2018, 05:00:54 pm
From the Game Info:

"
...Once a character's alignment becomes negative, it loses access to the safety of racial cities and becomes a free target for everyone.
You are free to rob, kill and plunder, but prepare to face the consequences!
"

Except when you have a blue alt that does all your buying and selling for you, made especially easy with the shared local clan bank at a wilderness bank and/or the ability trade without alignment hit between red and blue players just outside the city limits.
Blue alts will be less of a factor when the ARAC changes take effect.
A Blue Alt will become grey, and while he will still be able to access a Clan Bank, he will not be able to access NPC Cities.
Even if he is not in an ARAC Clan, having a Red in your Clan, or be allied to an ARAC Clan will have the same effect.

Why would a blue alt need to be allied? Blue alts can just have a separate clan and ally no one, nothing prevents bank use and trading between two random clans at the same bank.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Oriphus on March 03, 2018, 05:18:04 pm

And to comment about the racial wars. They cannot ever become the peak of the game because there is never any prospect of a race winning over another. This does not allow for the important politics meta in DF.


If a race of orks and wolves fight for ownership of a holding over a race of Alfar there can most certainly be a winner (and this is before they introduce racial warfronts). For conquest it is not much different to clan v clan, however racial wars through warfronts could allow players who are not interested in joining large clans at the start of their journey to ease themselves into the game and potentially participate in medium / large scale pvp, it also can bring a new dimension to DF as a whole that all previous failed versions since 2009 have not had and that is the potential to bond players from different backdrops to instinctively protect their own race against THE enemy, this could help with player retention quite a lot. Current VCP work against these principals heavily, I would like to see a complete rework of VCP's following introduction of warfronts. Guess I can keep dreaming on that one though. 
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: na0cho on March 03, 2018, 06:33:46 pm
make Reds not be allowed in clans.

Make reds not be able to trade blues.

Done.  Enjoy being criminal.

Want to push racial wars, well there you go.

Also make marketplaces outside towers in certain areas where you can force red players to go to play out of like bucs den or yew bank if you played uo.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Fritz Blitz on March 03, 2018, 06:35:55 pm
make Reds not be allowed in clans.

Make reds not be able to trade blues.

Done.  Enjoy being criminal.

Want to push racial wars, well there you go.

Also make marketplaces outside towers in certain areas where you can force red players to go to play out of like bucs den or yew bank if you played uo.
Your ideas are literally the worst.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 06:47:55 pm
What about the opposite of this racial war focus?
Right now you choose a race and you are blocked from 50% of the content, be it dwarf cities or orc spawns.

Why not make all race cities peaceful and accessible for everyone?
As a blue you would have access to greater geographic area to avoid Reds.
As a Blue you would have access to inter city trading.
As a Red you would have the possibility to raid caravans.

Racial wars could certainly still exist, with Warfronts as free for all (race spesiffic) kills.

DF is a pvp focused game, making it theme-park is just going to put it inn a position where its inferior to other theme-parks.
Of course the skilled based FPS pvp is something unique, but frankly, we should not overestimate this strength in competition with other games.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Wyverex on March 03, 2018, 06:51:45 pm
What about the opposite of this racial war focus?
Right now you choose a race and you are blocked from 50% of the content, be it dwarf cities or orc spawns.

Why not make all race cities peaceful and accessible for everyone?
As a blue you would have access to greater geographic area to avoid Reds.
As a Blue you would have access to inter city trading.
As a Red you would have the possibility to raid caravans.

Racial wars could certainly still exist, with Warfronts as free for all (race spesiffic) kills.

DF is a pvp focused game, making it theme-park is just going to put it inn a position where its inferior to other theme-parks.
Of course the skilled based FPS pvp is something unique, but frankly, we should not overestimate this strength in competition with other games.
There's a DF game that already tried it... became just a mindless goalless gankfest.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: XiaN on March 03, 2018, 06:58:51 pm
reading through this thread. (the first page cos i think reading more will give me an aneurysm) i seriously wonder

when did the darkfall community become so carebear?

or is it just that all carebears that ever set a foot into darkfall united under the New Dawn Fanclub banner now starting some weird kind of "Make Agon Carebear" campaign.

should there be disadvantages to it? sure but that would have to be disadvantages that cant be solved by having a blue alt. from there its a very thin line between giving them disadvantages that matter enough to make it a challenging playstyle that only few will want to embrace and making it a straight up non viable playstyle that no1 will want to deal with. the latter would be very bad for the game.

Reds are part of the game. they always been. they should be and aslong as all the disadvantages can be circumvented with a blue alt they will be. deal with it or play a game where you cant be attacked by your own race/faction. (literally any other MMO on the market pretty much)

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Oriphus on March 03, 2018, 07:39:02 pm

Right now you choose a race and you are blocked from 50% of the content, be it dwarf cities or orc spawns.


This is nonsense logic, with this logic, without race wars you are blocked from 100% of the content.

You also keep ignoring the fact that there are plenty of racial enemies, plenty of people red to you, you don't need entire map free for all but if you really want to be evil race traitor then that could still be optional but extremely difficult, it should be the ultimate, not the easiest choice.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: ruckus98 on March 03, 2018, 07:55:35 pm
30 days of praying is too generous.  Reds should have unlimited negative alignment.  It's too easy to gather up med points and gold then take a break from active play for a month.  Going red should be a serious, permanent commitment, not an occasional diversion every few months.   

Oh fuck off. Logging out for a month is too easy? How can you possibly come to that conclusion? Why don't we just ban people for PvP while we're at it?


Relax turbo, no one is truly advocating for such a harsh treatment of players.

Maximum negative alignment at 100 is perfect. It is punishing enough, but also gives a path out. However, anyone reaching 100 negative alignment most likely knows what they are doing and want to play the role of the bad guy anyways.


 

That's literally what his post said.

Hence the reason I clarify by typing no one is TRULY advocating. He is obviously just stating an opinion, not a definitive change that is going to implemented..

I'm responding to his opinion. I clearly never claimed that it was a definitive change. In the future you should just admit when you're wrong and move forward amicably. It will help you grow as a person.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 03, 2018, 07:59:28 pm
DF is and always have been a mindless goalless gankfest. Its actually a credit to how good DF is, that it has been able to survive so long without goals, as have been put.
Not sure if the games mentioned are DFUW or DFROA.
DFUW I tried, but because it was forcing a play-style on me as well as no chaos cities to live in, I QQed,
ROA, seriously, didnt even try. 

No, I don't believe a "conquest only" "racial war" focus will provide any goals to the kind of players that play DF.
We are hardcore players who want full loot and consequences. 
When someone call us names, we want the possibility to invade their lands or maybe even take their city away, we don't care what race their big mouths are.

The only thing that would make DF have goals is to make equipment valuable.
Why should everyone run around with the highest ranked equipment?
Why should everything be so easily accessible for everyone?
There is no joy in treasure, and using the highest ranked stuff does not give you a pvp advantage with the risk of huge loss, your just like everyone else.
There is no pleasure from crafting the best stuff. Honestly it should take months to make the ultimate great-sword, both requiring lots of resources and time searching for them. The item should be priceless and the makers and owners should be famous for it.
This is why I support DFND, because it seems the developers are trying to address the problem of things being worthless.
(although still not there yet)

But draining meditation points from reds on death and destroying loot only hurts the PVP.
1. No loot, so why try loot someone? I will be forced to play a crafting alt to get equipment, and the only thing left is the fun of killing, which frankly is really boring when its not in an overall player made context (which is not arranged).
For kills I can simply play WOT.
2. To progress in skills I cannot ever afford to fight someone unless I am 100% sure that I will win. I will have to avoid any situation where I am outnumbered and I can  only try kill the weakest players in Darkfall.

I'd rather say, lets have a fun gank-fest with goals and rewards!

Anyway, I don't think I have anything more to contribute towards a solution that satisfies everyone, and I am not saying that I am "right". Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, so far, that made this thread a constructive discussion, and lets see what the developers pull out of their hat.

Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: pesadelo on March 04, 2018, 07:51:57 am
make Reds not be allowed in clans.

Make reds not be able to trade blues.

Done.  Enjoy being criminal.

Want to push racial wars, well there you go.

Also make marketplaces outside towers in certain areas where you can force red players to go to play out of like bucs den or yew bank if you played uo.

Some of the worst ideas I ever read on this forum , gratz.

If anything reds need more content , like a mini hub/cities.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Cyborgmuppet on March 04, 2018, 03:15:26 pm
We do, we have chaos cities with black markets.

If anything we need to get some heat off our backs.
So the developers can polish the economy, make the high end stuff more valuable and less accessible, in order to make loot interesting, instead of wasting time on alignment changes.
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: SoethThoth on March 04, 2018, 03:43:56 pm
lets see what the developers pull out of their hat.

They have already showed us whats in the hat, you can read all about it here;

https://forums.darkfallnewdawn.com/index.php/topic,579.0.html

and here;

https://darkfallnewdawn.com/game-info/
Title: Re: What is the official view on RED players?
Post by: Dominatrixx on March 05, 2018, 08:13:08 am
No need to go red while you can just farm stupid orkish afk mining noobs near Flaming Skull for ez money xD