Darkfall: New Dawn

General => Bugs & Feedbacks => Topic started by: mongoloid123 on June 03, 2018, 02:11:32 pm

Title: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: mongoloid123 on June 03, 2018, 02:11:32 pm
Mages have begone+launch+unmissable eyerot+stormblast+multiple knockups, all designed to get out of melee range with cooldowns low enough to permanently cycle through them, all in the same spellschools as the best damage spells

Melees have seize and nothing else, archery is irrelevant when mages can escape whenever they want
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 03, 2018, 02:31:29 pm
play a mage then u shitter
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: SmallHands on June 03, 2018, 05:01:25 pm
If a melee is sticky backing or close to the mage who begones they go with them so they dont really escape.

Launch has a pretty long cast time and if you go pretty high so you can shoot them when they are mid air.

Eye rot is a title spell and the damage is missable so is the vision distortion but thats harder to miss.

Stormblast barely does anything until its like level 100 with a good staff, its also a title spell with 1min CD.

Theres like 3 spells that knock up;

Fireball - doesnt really knock that high if in heavy gear, and if you're pushing towards the mage sometime it makes you go towards them.
Lightning strike - small float and doesnt work very well if they direct hit you with it.
Magma - Title spell low damage long cast time but knocks pretty high.

If you're using the escape spells on cool down  you're fucking your HP / Stam over since you take a pretty big stam hit per Bhop.

If you play melee you should use archery at range to pressure them while closing ground.

After seeing your recent post history it seems instead of trying to play better or find a way to beat a mage you just cry for everything to be nerfed while buffing melee. Doesn't make sense theres plenty of melee players who are more lethal then any mage in a team fight. If you block with a shield a mage literally cant do anything to you.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 03, 2018, 08:13:52 pm
Thank you, we really needed another thread about the same from you:
https://forums.darkfallnewdawn.com/index.php/topic,9809.0.html

Now that you changed the title of the thread i am sure the feedback will be different :-)
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: mongoloid123 on June 03, 2018, 10:11:07 pm
If a melee is sticky backing or close to the mage who begones they go with them so they dont really escape.
thats why u cast begone on the enemy and not on the ground
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Launch has a pretty long cast time and if you go pretty high so you can shoot them when they are mid air.
1 shot and then they are already too far while healing up and you have no way of catching them
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Eye rot is a title spell and the damage is missable so is the vision distortion but thats harder to miss.
everyone has necro title just because of eyerot
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Stormblast barely does anything until its like level 100 with a good staff, its also a title spell with 1min CD.
not good to balance around having spell at lvl1 with dawnstaff, mage gear is free anyway, 1min cd is nothing when you have other escape spells
Quote
Theres like 3 spells that knock up;

Fireball - doesnt really knock that high if in heavy gear, and if you're pushing towards the mage sometime it makes you go towards them.
Lightning strike - small float and doesnt work very well if they direct hit you with it.
Magma - Title spell low damage long cast time but knocks pretty high.
nobody uses heavy gear because spells drain a shitload of stamina + can only melee aka useless + infliction/necro counter
Quote
If you're using the escape spells on cool down  you're fucking your HP / Stam over since you take a pretty big stam hit per Bhop.
irrelevant when you are already 300m from enemy and can mount up or heal to full while autorunning straight because you have full stamina and melee enemy will never catch you without a mount ("LOL JUST CARRY 10 MOUNTS!!!!")
Quote
If you play melee you should use archery at range to pressure them while closing ground.
If you block with a shield a mage literally cant do anything to you.
so which one is it? both at the same time? hmm
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: SmallHands on June 03, 2018, 10:42:45 pm
Clearly you don't do both at the same time moron. Block = no damage taken = no die  = can close ground but do no damage.
Archery = damage taken but also out putting damage.

"thats why u cast begone on the enemy and not on the ground" Ofc then the enemy mage is in the same place and one of your team can kill him. Also you can avoid a begone cast on you like that pretty easy and if you don;t then you bad.

"everyone has necro title just because of eyerot" No they dont.

Other stuff i cba to reply to because it seems like you don't pvp or if you do you run in with a Gsword out and die.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: mongoloid123 on June 04, 2018, 12:20:12 am
Clearly you don't do both at the same time moron. Block = no damage taken = no die  = can close ground but do no damage.
Archery = damage taken but also out putting damage.

"thats why u cast begone on the enemy and not on the ground" Ofc then the enemy mage is in the same place and one of your team can kill him. Also you can avoid a begone cast on you like that pretty easy and if you don;t then you bad.

"everyone has necro title just because of eyerot" No they dont.

Other stuff i cba to reply to because it seems like you don't pvp or if you do you run in with a Gsword out and die.

mage misses begone -> its ok still got eyerot/launch/other shit while keeping the same distance by bhopping while casting shit and dealing damage

you cant balance the game around group vs group, if mages auto-win every 1v1 against non-mages then its obviously broken
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Dunnin on June 04, 2018, 01:09:47 am
You're simply bad at pvp and it's time to accept it (doesn't mean I'm a pro). Mage is only stronger at lower skill tiers (cause aoe). The higher the skill of the players, the stronger the physical playstyle. If you buff physicals, higher tier mages will lose every time to high tier physicals.

-You can dodge every begone.
-You can dodge every eye rot.
-Launch & stormblast are death traps.
-And knock ups aren't an issue to a physical that's closing distance.
-You underestimate the damage for bunnyhopping.

p.s. Heavy gear is the best if you know what to do with it. You obviously don't. Most of our best players play with heavy gear. I guarrantee there aren't many (if any) mages around that can beat them.

Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: SmallHands on June 04, 2018, 01:38:52 am
Clearly you don't do both at the same time moron. Block = no damage taken = no die  = can close ground but do no damage.
Archery = damage taken but also out putting damage.

"thats why u cast begone on the enemy and not on the ground" Ofc then the enemy mage is in the same place and one of your team can kill him. Also you can avoid a begone cast on you like that pretty easy and if you don;t then you bad.

"everyone has necro title just because of eyerot" No they dont.

Other stuff i cba to reply to because it seems like you don't pvp or if you do you run in with a Gsword out and die.

mage misses begone -> its ok still got eyerot/launch/other shit while keeping the same distance by bhopping while casting shit and dealing damage

you cant balance the game around group vs group, if mages auto-win every 1v1 against non-mages then its obviously broken

Mages don't win every 1v1 lol. I've seen melee ARCHERS beat mages in duels and its not that uncommon.. Do you even use archery btw you never answer that it seems like you only play melee, like no bow.

You cant base an MMO balance on 1v1s when its supposed to be group play???
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 04, 2018, 11:15:46 am
mage misses begone -> its ok still got eyerot/launch/other shit while keeping the same distance by bhopping while casting shit and dealing damage
Have you EVER tried to use launch in pvp? with its cast time being that long you are basically tell them "ok guys kill me".
Bunnyhopping will also kill yourself due to fall damage. With a good begone/launch and a single hop, you are hitting yourself for 80 dmg...2 hops? 80+80.

P.s: btw, if launch is so strong, you know that it is largely unaffected by encumberance so you can use it too to bunnyhop just like the OP mage, do you? i bet you don't, or don't bother to use it and just cry because you lose.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: mongoloid123 on June 12, 2018, 10:54:47 pm
mage misses begone -> its ok still got eyerot/launch/other shit while keeping the same distance by bhopping while casting shit and dealing damage
Have you EVER tried to use launch in pvp? with its cast time being that long you are basically tell them "ok guys kill me".
Bunnyhopping will also kill yourself due to fall damage. With a good begone/launch and a single hop, you are hitting yourself for 80 dmg...2 hops? 80+80.

P.s: btw, if launch is so strong, you know that it is largely unaffected by encumberance so you can use it too to bunnyhop just like the OP mage, do you? i bet you don't, or don't bother to use it and just cry because you lose.

no fall damage if you bhop uphill even if its just a 10 degree slope

launch cast time is still affected by encumberance and yes the power isnt as much but mages still fly further, then mages go out of los to heal and/or mount up and you cant do anything about it

its been like this since DF1 launch but seems like devs haven't learned anything
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: huem vzhopu po pizde on June 13, 2018, 01:19:27 am
leather clones must be knocked up same as naked...fix pls
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Silverhaze on June 13, 2018, 07:40:13 am
mage misses begone -> its ok still got eyerot/launch/other shit while keeping the same distance by bhopping while casting shit and dealing damage
Have you EVER tried to use launch in pvp? with its cast time being that long you are basically tell them "ok guys kill me".
Bunnyhopping will also kill yourself due to fall damage. With a good begone/launch and a single hop, you are hitting yourself for 80 dmg...2 hops? 80+80.

P.s: btw, if launch is so strong, you know that it is largely unaffected by encumberance so you can use it too to bunnyhop just like the OP mage, do you? i bet you don't, or don't bother to use it and just cry because you lose.

no fall damage if you bhop uphill even if its just a 10 degree slope

launch cast time is still affected by encumberance and yes the power isnt as much but mages still fly further, then mages go out of los to heal and/or mount up and you cant do anything about it

its been like this since DF1 launch but seems like devs haven't learned anything

Your problem is not with mages it's with bunny hopping
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: xsevenbeta on June 13, 2018, 09:54:32 am
Yesterday we come to Horde city as mages, they was in heavy. And we dies like in few minutes. Main reason - mages dont have any benefits in enclosed spaces. On open space mages can do shitload AOE and nukes, but in small closed area melee and bow will win. So, need some tactic for different gear/setup and this is very nice.

You can impose a style of combat on the opponent, for example, get him into the city, and not fight with him in the open field, if you have more people in heavy armor. How did the guys from this video.
https://youtu.be/dWQpjl1VEV4?t=75

As for me - melee skill to strong depend on your ping. I could not hit in back with 80 ping, but with 65 ping i do that nice. That sad, but we cant nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 10:24:19 am
no fall damage if you bhop uphill even if its just a 10 degree slope
Bunnyhopping uphill will not get you any far away from the enemy, though....so you either bunnyhop on plain/downhill AND get fall dmg or you do it uphill, don't get fall damage BUT you don't get away

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launch cast time is still affected by encumberance and yes the power isnt as much but mages still fly further
Ever heard about unburden? look...it is under cantrips....you have it too....learn to use it instead of crying because you don't use all the tools at your disposal.
I've been traveling with teammates in studdeds and studded/heavy armors and, just by unburdening+begoning/launch they can pretty much keep up with me in bone for quite a long time (surely more than enough to chase me and kill me if i was an opponent....well unless you completely suck at archery, but that's another problem)

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then mages go out of los to heal and/or mount up and you cant do anything about it
While they are out of los, heal up too...and what blocks you from mounting up too and chasing them? You will have better stam regen due to medium armor, so in the end he will end stamina faster than you

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its been like this since DF1 launch but seems like devs haven't learned anything
Too bad they completely reworked launch since DF1....oh, wait, they even reworked bunnyhopping so that now you'll basically kill yourself if you bunnyhop...

As many others have already said: melee/archers can kill mages fine, if you know how to play....if you don't, well cry on the forums for nerfs :D
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 03:07:11 pm
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.

mages NEED better movement.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Wyverex on June 13, 2018, 03:20:33 pm
It's one thing for mages to have better mobility (which they need), but it's a completely other thing how crazy it is when people combine stormblast + explosion.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 03:31:35 pm
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.
mages NEED better movement.
Lol and please, enlighten me, what does unburden do when you already have 0 magic encumberance? Yeah you got it! NOTHING
Unburden is there exactly to allow people with magic encumberance to lower it and use begone/launch nearly as good as a mage.
In the short term (1/2 cycles of unburden+launch/begone you can move just as good as a mage even if you are at 40-50 encumberance, since that's how much unburden lowers it, more or less so, after an unburden, you're exactly at 0 magic encumberance just like the mage. On a long term chase? sure he will eventually get more out of it because he will not be limited to unburden cooldown which is longer than launch/begone cooldowns).

They don't have too much overall better movements....they can just access them more easily (because they need them as you said) because they don't need to unburden first

If you are in full heavy armor then, yes, you will have less mobility than a mage but you also have a fuckton more protections and hp regen. You can't have both, and that's how it should be
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 03:34:40 pm
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.
mages NEED better movement.
Lol and please, enlighten me, what does unburden do when you already have 0 magic encumberance? Yeah you got it! NOTHING
Unburden is there exactly to allow people with magic encumberance to lower it and use begone/launch nearly as good as a mage.
In the short term (1/2 cycles of unburden+launch/begone you can move just as good as a mage even if you are at 40-50 encumberance, since that's how much unburden lowers it, more or less. On a long term chase? sure he will eventually get more out of it because he will not be limited to unburden cooldown which is longer than launch/begone cooldowns)

If you are in full heavy armor then, yes, you will have less mobility than a mage but you also have a fuckton more protections and hp regen. You can't have both, and that's how it should be

It does nothing got it LOL xD

HAHAHA
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 03:35:57 pm
It's one thing for mages to have better mobility (which they need), but it's a completely other thing how crazy it is when people combine stormblast + explosion.
I don't know how much more combining then gives you in terms of mobility since i don't have the titles in neither of those schools but....isn't that one of the advantages of titleing in those schools?
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 03:37:00 pm
It does nothing got it LOL xD
HAHAHA
Yes, exactly...you can't have less than 0 encumberance, you know it right?
And i am the one looking stupid....
Please, show me how better you can begone/launch with a robe with and without unburdening first, i can't wait to see how better it gets...
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 03:42:30 pm
@dariobrun


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: SupremeBeing on June 13, 2018, 03:47:31 pm
Mages have begone+launch+unmissable eyerot+stormblast+multiple knockups, all designed to get out of melee range with cooldowns low enough to permanently cycle through them, all in the same spellschools as the best damage spells

Melees have seize and nothing else, archery is irrelevant when mages can escape whenever they want
Learn to use terrain.

Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 04:03:16 pm
@dariobrun
Still waiting your demonstration mr "i know it all"
But i guess i will keep waiting since you can't prove something that is not true
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 04:09:59 pm
@dariobrun
Still waiting your demonstration mr "i know it all"
But i guess i will keep waiting since you can't prove something that is not true

Prove what to you exactly?
That you are menatlly handi-capped? If you cant use unburden as a mage effectively thats YOUR problem.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 04:13:10 pm
Prove what to you exactly?
That you are menatlly handi-capped? If you cant use unburden as a mage effectively thats YOUR problem.
No prove your bullshit that unburden affects you with 0 encumberance. But you are playing BigAbboDND so maybe in your fantasy world it works....or probably you are just so stupid you think it does.

As usual, the only thing you are good at is randomly insulting (and you suck so much that you can't even write them right either) and spitting out bullshit.... it must suck to be you, i definitely don't envy your parents
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 04:21:00 pm
Prove what to you exactly?
That you are menatlly handi-capped? If you cant use unburden as a mage effectively thats YOUR problem.
No prove your bullshit that unburden affects you with 0 encumberance. But you are playing BigAbboDND so maybe in your fantasy world it works....or probably you are just so stupid you think it does.

As usual, the only thing you are good at is randomly insulting (and you suck so much that you can't even write them right either) and spitting out bullshit.... it must suck to be you, i definitely don't envy your parents

HAHAHA you just jump to presumptions.
I love to let you carry them out first, then maker you look retarded.

1) Where do I state what you are saying please? show me.
2) Get burdened as a mage? Unburden and your gone. Get Burdened as Heavy? Fucked.


Plus many more uses that you obviously havent got the IQ to think of.


Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 04:36:36 pm
1) Where do I state what you are saying please? show me.
I wrote this:
launch cast time is still affected by encumberance and yes the power isnt as much but mages still fly further
Ever heard about unburden? look...it is under cantrips....you have it too....learn to use it instead of crying because you don't use all the tools at your disposal.
We were talking about being able to use begone/launch as efficiently as a mage if you are at 40-50 encumberance by just using unburden, to which you replied:
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.
Clearly you were NOT meaning that a mage using unburden can move even faster too, weren't you? right?
Surely you were not even referring to using unburden to be able to use launch/begone without being affected by encumberance. Nooo, you were talking about what happens if someone first burden you, right?
It's funny how you try to change the sense of your replies everytime you realize you have said bullshit.

Quote
2) Get burdened as a mage? Unburden and your gone. Get Burdened as Heavy? Fucked.
Get burdened as a mage? you are fucked up until it goes away (minus the 5-6 seconds that you can be unburdened during those 30+ seconds that you are burdened) because now you do crap dmg and all your secondary effects are useless.
Get burdened as a heavy? Whoa, you will transfer/heal for a bit less while being encumbered and if he tries to bunnyhop away you can't catch him.
Moreover:
1- very few pepole have raw magic title
2- even less people will even try to burden a non mage, when they could have just nuked him or debuffed him with something more useful
3- what does burden have to do with the thread complaining about begone/launch being generally too strong? You can't consider a very specific situation and build you're fighting against (raw magic titled player burdening you) as the base to balance stuff, you know it?
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 05:04:00 pm
We were talking about being able to use begone/launch as efficiently as a mage if you are at 40-50 encumberance by just using unburden

Where does ANYBODY state 40-50 encum on the first page? What mages even have 50 encum wtf?
Talking out your arse as always.

Quote
Get burdened as a mage? you are fucked up until it goes away (minus the 5-6 seconds that you can be unburdened during those 30+ seconds that you are burdened) because now you do crap dmg and all your secondary effects are useless.
Get burdened as a heavy? Whoa, you will transfer/heal for a bit less while being encumbered and if he tries to bunnyhop away you can't catch him.
Moreover:
1- very few pepole have raw magic title
2- even less people will even try to burden a non mage, when they could have just nuked him or debuffed him with something more useful
3- what does burden have to do with the thread complaining about begone/launch?

We are talking about movement mage vs non mage......
A mage can cast burden on a heavy, then simply launch begone away. Non-Mage cant launch to catch up. Which you stated they could always could :)

In a group fight if a mage gets burdened, they can unburden and launch/begone away then mount up. You said mages couldnt use unburden to increase movement. Obviously they can.

Please think before you post, you get so mad that you make no sense.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 05:15:40 pm
@Big Abbo, master at reading comprehension since 2001!! :D
Where does ANYBODY state 40-50 encum on the first page? What mages even have 50 encum wtf?
Talking out your arse as always.
It is not the mage at 50 encumberance but the "poor melee" that can, then, unburden AND launch/begone as good as a mage (that is instead at 0 encumberance and does not need to unburden)
If you learned to read, and tried to also comprehend (i know, i know, it is soo hard for you, but try, you can improve too) before spitting out useless bullshit replies and then trying to climb on mirrors to cover it, then you could, sometime, even say something that makes sense.

Quote
We are talking about movement mage vs non mage......
A mage can cast burden on a heavy, then simply launch begone away. Non-Mage cant launch to catch up. Which you stated they could always could :)

In a group fight if a mage gets burdened, they can unburden and launch/begone away then mount up. You said mages couldnt use unburden to increase movement. Obviously they can.

Please think before you post, you get so mad that you make no sense.
He was saying that melee are fucked when they meet a mage because they can move too fast while he can't. You are now, instead, speaking of a very specific situation when you are fighting against a raw magic specced mage that first burden you...and you don't even see the difference?

I didn't say they can't use unburden to improve their movement. I said they don't need it because they have no encumberance.
Nice try using a specific example where you can put a mage into encumberance and then showing he can use it too...great way to cover your mistake :D

As said earlier, stop trying to climb on mirrors....you are just making yourself even more ridiculous

I suggest you to try a career in politics, you are really good at shuffling the cards when things go bad to try to demonstrate you were saying something completely different....i can see you having a lot of success in that field
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Nuyur on June 13, 2018, 05:18:04 pm
Did you know, magnitude actually makes begone stronger?
Did you know, mage equipment has magnitude traits? (also, you use a medium/slow staff instead of a bb)
Did you know, magic titles have % potency?
Did you know, melee titles have -% potency?

Its really annoying to have to spell things out for people that think they know it all when they really dont.
And yes, i dont know everything about the game either, but you are ignoring the obvious gap in mobility just because you have gotten a sense that mages need mobility to survive.

Mages do need to outmanuver a physical player, because they need to avoid melee.
This doesnt mean they need to always be able to get a gap on demand with 3 different options, each with seperate cooldowns.

Which is something that got brought up, that begone +launch already has very little downtime. If you have an air title (which, is a strong pick in the current setup), you add in stormblast ontop. Now stormblast does have a long cooldown, but its there on the very small chance that you fuck up so much that you need another mobility spell because the other 2 are still on cooldown.

Then there's options like confusion, eye rot, ice storm to make vision an issue.
While you can counter some of these, it means you need to avoid it while keeping track of your target to close the gap.
I dont know about you, but i have a hard time reading the mind of my opponent while im looking up in the air to not look at the blind.
I also cannot seem to predict where he runs when i have to take out my melee weapon and look straight down to avoid the eye rot blind (and you kind of want/need to jump, else you often still get the blind effect).
A jump is currently more of a "knockup" than most spell effects are. (most, read carefully)
Mages can use that air time to create a bigger gap, thats the whole point of a knockup and its not like its hard to know what is going to happen.
Either he gets the blind effect, and you change direction.
Or he jumps, and you change direction....OMG mage so hard

Which leaves us with aimed alternatives...because yes, even a mage has spells that require aim.
Punguent mist, while not ideal, will hamper vision greatly and (esp in team fights) make it very hard to track you.
Dragon breath will shortly blind most races (mahirim OP!), with higher magnitude this is enough to not see a turn you made untill the time has passed.
Fireball, magma and lighting strike all knock up your opponent a certain ammount, often enough to get some distance increase.

Now i know you want to say "knockups got nerfed because everybody is heavy".
But in reality, the people that COULD unburden to keep up with you (they cant, but lets say your arguement holds some merit), are lightly geared enough that knockups still do plenty to avoid melee (barring seize)
While the people you cant knock up properly, cant.

So either you can kite because you got cc.
Or you can kite because they cant go anywhere.

The first is skill based, the latter is unbalanced.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 05:25:46 pm
Just in case you forgot about it:
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.
Lol and please, enlighten me, what does unburden do when you already have 0 magic encumberance? Yeah you got it! NOTHING
[/quote]
It does nothing got it LOL xD
HAHAHA
You CLEARLY were not stating that unburden helps you at 0 encumberance, no :D
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Nuyur on June 13, 2018, 05:33:34 pm
Might aswell read your mind and write out a response to you now.

When  i said unbalanced, i dont mean that a full heavy doesnt have a lot of resistances and health regen. (i do like how we skip over the mana regen a mage has, which allows for a lot of mana>stam, which makes it a leather wearer with a tiny bit of cast time. most heavies run out of stam faster than health, it also cannot be team healed. Heck, most of the balance suggestions for the "new" spell schools is to add secondairy effects. Come on...)

I meant that if a mage wants to play like a bitch, he can almost guarantee he will not die to a full heavy.
It doesnt mean he gets to cap the village, revive/gank somebody, hold a choke point or any ground really.
But not losing is the first step to victory.

Will obviously also point out that a full heavy refusing to come out of a house can preform a similar feat.
Minus the part where calling in friends to help has a fixed destination that will eventually get him killed.
While a mage can run away and lead you on a wild goose chase.

But well, balance talks are never as simple as buffing/nerfing/adding/removing one thing.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 05:45:13 pm
@Nuyur i am not saying that a mage is not a bitch to catch, if he knows how to play well, i am just saying that, to me, it is NOT unbalanced.
I'd avoid now start to go into all the specific title combinations that it make it harder to catch because those are too many variables to introduce because, then, i could start also saying that it is not true that stamina can't be healed by teammates...you just need a title in Spellchanting and you can now also heal stamina, But, as i said, we can not analyze every single possible situation to determine balance.

If a melee gets into melee range, he can kill the mage in 0.5s. Can the mage kill the heavy in 0.5s? Not even close. So is that unbalanced too? No, it isn't exactly because the mage is harded to catch. If you catch him he is dead in the blink of an eye, so it HAS to be difficult to catch. HARD is way different from impossible, though

It is impossible to catch him? No, it isn't or, otherwise, we'd only see mages out there and there would be no one killing them and we both know that is definitely not true since there are a TON of melee/archers doing fine and able to kill mages with no problems.

With the changes they made to bunnyhopping so that now you deal a considerable amount of dmg to yourself when jumping too far, it has been already heavily nerfed and i don't feel it is unbalanced at all now.
I had meet some mages that were able to always manage to escape one way or another when in difficulty, but those were a very small minority, they were specced with the right titles (air/fire) AND were really good at doing it....but in most cases, we always managed to kill a fleeing mage.

I also met people in fullplate/infernal being able to recover from being nearly dead to 40% life in seconds thanks to potions/rage/transfer/heals/base hp regen and being nearly "immortals" just by managing to avoid being hits for a few seconds (hiding behind something for example)...those it makes heavy armors unbalanced because they can manage to recover fast thanks to a combination of low received dmg+high hp regen? nope it doeesn't....but it doesn't make them less of a bitch to kill just as much as a good mage
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Wyverex on June 13, 2018, 05:45:21 pm
Two more facts to add to the discussion:
* you CAN heal someone's stamina (not much, only ~10 per cast)
* using unburden improves displacement effects even when you're at 0 encumbrance (because Encumbrance, in addition to being a penalty, acts as a resist to displacements too)

Carry on.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Nuyur on June 13, 2018, 07:25:12 pm
If a melee gets into melee range, he can kill the mage in 0.5s.

Really, half a second?
What, you run around at 5 hp for fun all the time?

If you are at full health, counting 400 (even though you can have more), hitting in the back (even though you could ...not show your back), you would need 6 hits minimum (not with daggers).
6 hits is 3 seconds, at least. With 2h probably closer to 5 seconds.

Is that fast, highest dps in the game, yes. But it has a severe range limitation that warrants the compensation.

If you are not at full health (because archery is a thing) then sure, you can die quicker.
But you deal damage back at range. You are advocating superior mobility (note, not kite potential through the use of CC or other spells, just straight up mobility), because melee must be avoided at all costs.
Its simply tilted too far, as often with things that are unbalanced.

If you catch him he is dead in the blink of an eye, so it HAS to be difficult to catch. HARD is way different from impossible, though

2 heavies spot a mage on a mount, the mage rides away and they cannot catch him.
Not enough mobility, even with unburden. And while slow mount sprint is great...
The mage can literally ride a quick mount, have it be sniped after mount sprint from the heavies.
Then bunny hop himself and mount a slow mount and sprint away.
You cannot get caught, unless you blunder...repeatedly...and your aim is so bad you cannot win a fight with your opponent(s) at low vitals because of the difficulty of chasing you.

2 mages spot a heavy on a mount, 1 dismounts and hops to get the heavy to dodge shots making the 2nd mage close the gap.
2nd mage dismounts as he catches up to the first, swapping roles untill both are close enough (and/or) the mount to die.
Heavy now has no means to escape.
Before you say, he can turn at any point and start killing them like the mage situation before.
Keep in mind that a heavy really does need to melee. So yay for mobility right?

It is impossible to catch him? No, it isn't or, otherwise, we'd only see mages out there and there would be no one killing them and we both know that is definitely not true since there are a TON of melee/archers doing fine and able to kill mages with no problems.

Melee is the best tool to kill bad players if you are good.
Just because nubs get chopped up by better players doesnt mean the balance is in a good spot.


I had meet some mages that were able to always manage to escape one way or another when in difficulty, but those were a very small minority, they were specced with the right titles (air/fire) AND were really good at doing it....but in most cases, we always managed to kill a fleeing mage.

Ignoring the "we" part, meaning your opponent decided to fight in an outnumberd situation (or lost a fight he was part of trying to escape).
There's a very simple basic truth in this statement. Some good players can take this game mechanic and always not lose.
Not losing =/= winning, but its certaintly a step forward from having to live with the consequences of getting into a fight.
Or a consequence of being out in the world with the option of pvp.



I also met people in fullplate/infernal being able to recover from being nearly dead to 40% life in seconds thanks to potions/rage/transfer/heals/base hp regen and being nearly "immortals" just by managing to avoid being hits for a few seconds (hiding behind something for example)...those it makes heavy armors unbalanced because they can manage to recover fast thanks to a combination of low received dmg+high hp regen? nope it doeesn't....but it doesn't make them less of a bitch to kill just as much as a good mage

You are forgetting the part where health =/= stamina, the ability to actually fight.
Longer fights drain stats on heavies. Good ones will utilise the regen of mana and stamina, but recovering like that takes a lot out of you.
(keep in mind, im not saying the ammount of punishment a full heavy with shield can take is in a good spot.
But you cant give mobility, something which can be used in many situations, and couple that to endurance.
Especially because you are still fucking over the leather geared players that lack magic magnitude, have to use unburden, and cannot endure as much damage nor recover that health very quickly.
(yes, they got more stam so they should stam>health right?
You are a mage, you should mana>stam, and stam>health. Immortality can always be argued if you were given infinite time to transfer. But guess what, cast speed and magnitude is a thing there too. So....mages > leather > heavy in the continued restat potential. The only thing heavy got going for it is resistances. And both leather and mages get magnitude on their attacks to compensate for that).

This will be the last reply.

Two more facts to add to the discussion:
* you CAN heal someone's stamina (not much, only ~10 per cast)
* using unburden improves displacement effects even when you're at 0 encumbrance (because Encumbrance, in addition to being a penalty, acts as a resist to displacements too)

Carry on.

Alright, so some people can heal stamina but its still not standard and still minor.
And yes, unburden ofcourse improves your ability if you have magic encumberance.
But having 0 magic enc =/= same magnitude as a (title) mage
Also...casting unburden still takes time, which the mage can restat or deal damage in.
You cant pretend its fine to be casting all the time just to achieve the same as another in half the time.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 07:28:28 pm
Quote
Just in case you forgot about it:
@dariobrun mages can use unburden too.  stop going on like they dont have better movement, you look stupid.
Lol and please, enlighten me, what does unburden do when you already have 0 magic encumberance? Yeah you got it! NOTHING
It does nothing got it LOL xD
HAHAHA
You CLEARLY were not stating that unburden helps you at 0 encumberance, no :D

Thanks for repeating the same drivel over and over, even when not having a clue.
Two more facts to add to the discussion:
* you CAN heal someone's stamina (not much, only ~10 per cast)
* using unburden improves displacement effects even when you're at 0 encumbrance (because Encumbrance, in addition to being a penalty, acts as a resist to displacements too)

Carry on.

@dariobrun hahahahahhahahaha u wot m8?
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: dariobrun on June 13, 2018, 09:20:26 pm
Thanks for repeating the same drivel over and over, even when not having a clue.
Keep denying your own sentences, i am sure it is good for your mental health to keep telling yourself "i am right, i am right, i am right"

Quote
@dariobrun hahahahahhahahaha u wot m8?
I won't even need to reply to that, someone else already did it
And yes, unburden ofcourse improves your ability if you have magic encumberance.
But having 0 magic enc =/= same magnitude as a (title) mage
Stay deluded and clueless ;)
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Mycke on June 13, 2018, 09:49:44 pm
Though it might not make sense at first glance Dario is correct because mobility is dual effected by encumb, once by magic encumb effecting magnitude and secondly by BASE encumb reducing knock around, so if your encumb is 19.99 you have 0 magic encumb and will have full magnitude, but you will still have that 19.99 reducing knock around, so if you unburden that 19.99 becomes 0 and thus you get more effect from mobility that knocks you (storm, begone, launch etc).
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Big Abbo on June 13, 2018, 11:17:00 pm
@Mycke died to battlespikes hes on your level @dariobrun
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: Nataz on June 15, 2018, 12:47:39 am
MAGEFALL
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: huem vzhopu po pizde on June 15, 2018, 08:33:11 am
you hardly can call them mages... More like a clowns with broken magic.
Some of them have pretty good damage through title % abuse,but its peace of shit pvp.No dynamic.
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: huem vzhopu po pizde on June 15, 2018, 08:34:20 am
MAGEFALL
leather clones fall
Title: Re: Mages have too much movement/utility without sacrificing damage output
Post by: huem vzhopu po pizde on June 15, 2018, 08:38:46 am
dnd mages is same piece of shit as this video. Pvp in dnd i same shit lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ZpwIzhwDs