Skip to main content

Topic: Going rogue (Read 592 times) previous topic - next topic

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Going rogue
Reply #30
@Rokaroo
this game is not only about racial wars. that's just one aspect. another aspect that's at least as important if not even more important is the clan vs clan aspect. In that regard it makes sense that a clan set their rules on however they like in their territory.

as far as we know ub3rgames will make it possible that a clan can make their territory part of the racial territory, but they don't have to.
Bala Eregi - SG of Pickaxe Inc

Re: Going rogue
Reply #31
@Rokaroo
this game is not only about racial wars. that's just one aspect. another aspect that's at least as important if not even more important is the clan vs clan aspect. In that regard it makes sense that a clan set their rules on however they like in their territory.

as far as we know ub3rgames will make it possible that a clan can make their territory part of the racial territory, but they don't have to.

I get that and that's an important insight, but I'm not sure how it's relevant. As I said, an enemy faction clan, ARAC, or red clan already views me (as a blue) as red anyway. The game doesn't need to make me rogue to my NPC faction in order for them to obliterate me, nor does it make sense for the game to do so contextually, and is in fact more confusing.

Again, a blue clan, imo, SHOULD be able to flag trespassers regardless of their alignment. They are in good standing with their NPC faction and have been given authority over the land to police it, their jurisdiction is respected. But why would my NPC faction respect the jurisdiction of an enemy faction, ARAC, or red clan? Seems silly, immersion breaking, and contrary to the spirit of the game.
  • Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:03:21 pm by Rokaroo

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Going rogue
Reply #32
ok let's assume you have a blue mahirim. the blue mahirim goes to one of the cities close to the mahirim npc cities. This city is owned by a pure blue mahirim clan. The lone mahirim starts behaving in ways the owners don't like and doesn't obey the rules they have set up for their holding. or maybe they don't even want to have non clan members inside their city. if you don't become gray there is nothing they can do about it.

that's why the system is as it is right now. it's actually a fairly simple system. you enter someone's holding you are not allied with or part of and you become gray. once you left the holding and stayed out of combat you return to your blue status 2 minutes later.

Is the system perfect? No, it's not.
Will it be changed? I guess so. after all they are working on an engagement system that should be able to determine who's breaking rules in a much better way. Also they talked about holding owners being able to set up their own rules. No details are known about it though.
Bala Eregi - SG of Pickaxe Inc

Re: Going rogue
Reply #33
ok let's assume you have a blue mahirim. the blue mahirim goes to one of the cities close to the mahirim npc cities. This city is owned by a pure blue mahirim clan. The lone mahirim starts behaving in ways the owners don't like and doesn't obey the rules they have set up for their holding. or maybe they don't even want to have non clan members inside their city. if you don't become gray there is nothing they can do about it.

that's why the system is as it is right now. it's actually a fairly simple system. you enter someone's holding you are not allied with or part of and you become gray. once you left the holding and stayed out of combat you return to your blue status 2 minutes later.

Is the system perfect? No, it's not.
Will it be changed? I guess so. after all they are working on an engagement system that should be able to determine who's breaking rules in a much better way. Also they talked about holding owners being able to set up their own rules. No details are known about it though.

Yeah I get it and said as much multiple times, and agree blue owners should be to flag other unauthorized blues, and said as much multiple times, and understand why it is, and said as much multiple times...am i being trolled right now? Obviously the system is not perfect, thats why we're in beta and talking about it on a beta forums....

Re: Going rogue
Reply #34
The system as it is works fine. This particular case is just an issue because said hamlet lies literally 1 begone away from NPC towers, which is not the case with just about every other holding IG.
  • Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 04:58:50 am by fitteslim
ᛟ Charax Hatehunter ᛟ

Re: Going rogue
Reply #35
The system as it is works fine. This particular case is just an issue because said hamlet lies literally 1 begone away from NPC towers, which is not the case with just about every other holding IG.
You are wrong. Quite a few villages are close to NPC towers.
Also the problem is not only about that scenario. NPC towers attacking people that did nothing against NPC fraction is only an example of how bad current lawless areas concept is. Even if there are no NPC towers close to mark someone gray (rogue) only because he traveled close to village makes no sense.
  • Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 09:11:07 am by wildNothing

Re: Going rogue
Reply #36
The system as it is works fine. This particular case is just an issue because said hamlet lies literally 1 begone away from NPC towers, which is not the case with just about every other holding IG.

I see your point, but the problem isn't just NPC towers; it's also other players. So while I might not get zapped by NPC towers at other holdings, I could still run into blue mahirim who might chop my grey head off; but why should I be grey to them just because I invaded a elf/dwarf/human holding? If anything I should be colored hero!

I think this is actually a bigger issue, assuming a healthy population. The sillyness of the towers I could get over, but getting zerg griefed by a buncha blues who get wide eyes for a grey would be a pretty shitty experience for a lot of players i think.
  • Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 01:29:41 pm by Rokaroo

Re: Going rogue
Reply #37
A third state may indeed work out. We will consider it.
For exemple, only people that were within the same contested areas are grey to each other, but not to the rest of the world.
This status could be used for trespassers as well, which would allow owners to dispose of them. We also want to make the KoS/friends list of clans meaningful, and that could be one potential use as well.
Perhaps even use it for more than the examples given here, like one to one "contested" state for bounty hunters or for a revenge kill on a player that lost alignment against you but remained blue. (ie. mount thief, grave robbers or a killer without a gank)

However, we'll have to be careful of edge cases, though.
What of holdings that were set to be racial lands. Shouldn't random citizens be able to help the owners to manage these unwanted individuals without repercussion? Or what of enemies that come and raid "legally" after declaring war?
There is complexity we'll have to figure out for holdings.

For VCPs, though, that's a clear cut case that players should be "contested" to each other, and then as long as they remain engaged with each other they can continue to fight without repercussion, even after leaving the location, but not be viewed as open targets to other racially aligned players.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Going rogue
Reply #38
It makes sense that blue clans should be able to set laws on their land that affect the alignment of others of their race; they should be able to declare trespassers as rogues and attack them, and others attack them, as well. They've broken the law and that's that, nbd. Makes sense contextually as well as for gameplay mechanics.

It doesn't make sense that an enemy faction clan, ARAC clan, or red-alignment clan should be able to alter my status (assuming I am blue). The location of the holding seems irrelevant, just the status of the clan.

The idea for a 'personal status' for 'revenge kills' or 'bounty hunter' work is also very intriguing!
  • Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 12:03:00 am by Rokaroo

  • nubnax
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Going rogue
Reply #39
I like the idea of status changes depending on mutual standing to each other. You don't just become globally gray but only to for example the people within the contested area. Or like rokaroo says you become gray as trespasser of a holding owned by racial allies but you won't when you enter a racial enemies holding or an ARACs holding.

It is still easy to understand and adds many more possibilities rather than a broad stroke "you become globally gray when you do that"-rule

one thing has to be considered though. if player A becomes gray to blue player B without any ingame indication to player A, then player A will be quite confused why a blue player could attack and kill him without losing alignment. There must be a clear indication ingame who sees you as gray and who doesn't, and why.
Bala Eregi - SG of Pickaxe Inc

Re: Going rogue
Reply #40
one thing has to be considered though. if player A becomes gray to blue player B without any ingame indication to player A, then player A will be quite confused why a blue player could attack and kill him without losing alignment. There must be a clear indication ingame who sees you as gray and who doesn't, and why.

An interesting insight; in the same spirit, how do two warring clans, who are otherwise blue, appear to spectators?

  • Otis
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Going rogue
Reply #41
Anyone that is engaged in combat with you should appear grey 'rogue' unless they are already red or have warred you 'orange'. And since warring parties are protected from karma loss, they're actions with one another should have no impact on what outsiders see them as.