This Guy is a whiny bitchh
@Jezvin This is why we are adding meditation points to some PvP objectives, to allow players to level from PvP and attract players to these activities thanks to the progression aspect.We also hope that the final engagement system will be sturdy enough that we'll be able to allow PvP gains again.The best behavior comment is based on the alignment system and the spawn scaling mechanic.If you gain faster progression from sharing spawns with other players, then you feel compelled to not be ostracized from the in game society as it would limit your grouping potential.In other words, wanting to level or gain loot faster means you'll play nicer with others, which will generally improve the community to be more welcoming and have a meaningful player culture."This reads as you are saying it's an MMO so it needs a grind."No, it explains why MMORPGs work.Having long term goals and having activity serve both an intrinsic and extrinsic purpose allows for each play session to be a form of "double dipping".People that play full fledged MMOs do it to be part of a world and to have it on their mind most of the time. They see it as their main game.While they may play arena games on the side, what they really want is to create their own character and theorycraft its evolution.Create builds, experiment, discover a world full of wonders, face higehr dangers and later, come back and conquer them.To project into the future and reflect on the past and the progress made is important. It means a player is able to think about a game rather than just experience it.This is the strength of MMORPGs, and the reason of their longevity.The irony is that people that want to PvP right now would have less PvP opportunities without player progression.On the other hand, reducing the power gap, implementing diminishing returns and making player progression more engaging with group content and eventually more challenging encounters will make it not a grind and only the positive points of long term progression will remain.This is for the best for both sides of the discussion.
@Jezvin Well-made sandbox game, you don't really need to kill 1000s of mobs to progress your character, so you get stronger so you can grind some more, just look at Minecraft or EvE. Darkfall's always been an oldschool grinding game, the whole game is designed around it. People want to compare it to UO...
That's how the original devs pitched Darkfall to us circa 2004; UO on steroids. Sadly it was a bit of a bait and switch. Still, no one forced us to buy the game. I'd just like the game to have contained more of the rich content that the original developers envisaged.
There will be "instant" uses of meditation, for those that do not logout often enough to use it fully, in the form of spending 10 to 1 to level instantly a skill.And of course, if the engagement system proves to be sturdy, PvP itself will be source of leveling, so it will remove most of your doubts.However, spawn scaling isn't "suffering together", it is about scaling difficulty to ensure that the PvE is more rewarding, but more importantly challenging and engaging too.This is where your approach is problematic, you seem to consider PvE to be "suffering". If it is truly the case, then there isn't much we can say that will change your mind.Darkfall is one of a rather rare kind nowadays, where PvE is done by camping spawns rather than clearing raids or completing quests.It is an inherently more social manner of handling progression, and this is a differentiation factor. For many old school players, it is an actual selling point.Making spawns challenging, to the point where players are forced to work well together or wipe, is what creates friendship and long term memories, even when meeting strangers on a spawn.This won't prevent us from creating more quests, or our own form of "raids", but it will be for the sake of hand holding, play session compartmentalization or variety, not as the main progression route.To answer your final question, there are multiple forms of progression in Darkfall. Not all types of events has to satisfy all progression equally.You have character progression, economic progression, player skill progression and empire progression, as broad general categories.As long as an event in the game is rewarding to one of these, then it has purpose.
I look at your road map 4 maybe 5 of the 7 game related topics are about PvP, then you sit here and say it' not really suppose to be a PvP game. This is a joke. The majority of this game is PvP, you play darkfall because it's open PvP full loot
whether you want to spend time PvEing or if you want to craft and gather, PvP is the spice that makes this game appealing over doing those things in WoW or some other MMO. Darkfall is a competitive game, player skill and gear are set up to not be an issue. Skill is on you, and gear is risk vs reward.
Character progression isn't fair, it's who has invested more time,
and in a game so based around PvP you are forcing people to invest time into PvE, not only forcing them into PvE but making it a significant amount of time PvEing to get fair PvP.
No safe zones make it PvP
Full loot makes it compeditive, that's Darkfall you can't keep those and say it's not suppose to be a PvP game.
The skill progress system in DF is not that different from UO - you did actions to increase base attributes from 0 to 100, you did skilled actions increased skills from 0 to 100, and you only got gains from doing actions related to those skills. I guess that's where the original devs made the connection to UO. UO could be every bit as grindy as DF, but the difference was that UO was not perceived as primarily a PvP game so the grind to skill up was the game.
No one is forcing you into PvE. You can always choose not to play. Many of us actually want to play the PvE. We enjoy the PvE. Bizarre huh. If you don't like PvE, don't play an MMORPG.
Your friends are less important than the future of Darkfall.
...The point of the game is to fight over land, which means compete over resources....So no, in the end, Darkfall is not just a competitive PvP game, it is meant to be much, much more.
Quote from: Textra on August 29, 2016, 10:15:53 amThe skill progress system in DF is not that different from UO - you did actions to increase base attributes from 0 to 100, you did skilled actions increased skills from 0 to 100, and you only got gains from doing actions related to those skills. I guess that's where the original devs made the connection to UO. UO could be every bit as grindy as DF, but the difference was that UO was not perceived as primarily a PvP game so the grind to skill up was the game. If that had been the case, felucca/trammel split would've never happened. I'm sorry, but your statements about perception of a game you throw Jezvin's way also apply to yourself.
Jezvvin's argument that the only real sand in the box (player created content) is based on PVP, be it roaming, raiding, sieges or the political meta game, still stands. Your claims to the contrary are dishonest at best. You can apply as much circular reasoning you want. You can dress that pig called DF PVE in a dress, it will still have horrible path finding, be obnoxiously repetitive and in an objective comparison to modern titles just bad. But yet it stands there in your way to your little shovel in the sandbox, presenting it's ugly face. There is no arguing that people still enjoy it in some way or the other, but making it out to be the game's raison d'être I just can't take serious.
The discussions in GD since pay2play turned rather interesting: it's like felucca/trammel happened in forumfall. Just that this time in this iteration of the game the most fervent, loudest and obnoxious posters are not from felucca but trammel. It's like there is no middleground with this game. Case in point: all those "then just don't play the game" statements, this time just worded more nicely:
Quote from: Ub3rgames on August 30, 2016, 07:41:57 am...The point of the game is to fight over land, which means compete over resources....So no, in the end, Darkfall is not just a competitive PvP game, it is meant to be much, much more.I am confused. Honestly.