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Topic: Mines (Read 719 times) previous topic - next topic

Mines
Is the current system of "unlimited people can tap a Mine" creating oversupply of rare metals?

Myself, I tap a Mine at bedtime, quickly at breakfast, and again as I log in for a nightly play session.  This nets me a total supply of 12 rares for virtually zero effort, and I don't even have any alts!

Any player whose Alliance holds a Mine can do this, because there's really no penalty to the Alliance for sharing in this way.

Is anyone else concerned that the new system makes it too damned easy to get rare metal, especially when compared to the time it takes to get T1-3 Leather and Cloth? 

I'm wondering if the old DFO system, that doesn't scale rare metal supply to the number of miners, might have been better....

DND has made many awesome changes, but this one worries me.

Re: Mines
Reply #1
Is anyone else concerned that the new system makes it too damned easy to get rare metal, especially when compared to the time it takes to get T1-3 Leather and Cloth? 


Yes my concern is mastery soft armor is too much effort per set, i mean having shadow veil on what is arguably the hardest mob in the game for mages to farm just makes everything else seem easy except maybe dragon bone, but all the soft armors are a lot of work.

Last night 2 manned the bully/boss 1hr repeatable with 59 kills and we got 41 thick leather between us, each share being about half the effort we need for our sets (think leather for him and Gbone for me) so a full 2 hours to get just the rares (not counting leather ingots and gold) for a single set of r40-50 armor.

I think full plate needs an enchanting mat on the recipe (like q4 claw or blood to go with the q5 used for Infernal) but I also think the mastery tailoring (and r60 robes and bone in particular) need to be softened up and not a 2.5-3 hour investment per set.

Re: Mines
Reply #2
On topic of mines, it took us a long time before we had access to any mine and it was an issue, but in the greater scheme of things the mines in holdings are something of a boon, a local benefit of the area. Our solution was to cooperate with others who had a mine whether by trade or favorable conditions. Inequalities like this force specialization in some way, having a certain type of rare more readily available has an impact on what you can produce and so what trades are possible.

Had we had mines from the start sure we would be rich in metals, but we would instead be using metals to barter for other things we aren't producing. The current situation is sluggish with bigger trades and more logistics, and this is because of population (having more players would enable market activity that would help everyone to efficiently liquidate and purchase resources).

edit: But there is a serious need to review how the market is actually being used and why it is ineffective - Sorry, I realize this is slightly derailing the topic but I feel that it is part of the discussion
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 03:39:02 am by VoQeles

Re: Mines
Reply #3
No matter how inefficient, players will go for least risk/resistance way to attaining resources. OP is spot on, these mines are activity killer and makes certain mastery items common.. When shared node pool was abolished I was the first one to raise this.

Solution is create new resources ONLY attainable through nodes in city thus giving values to owning city.. Move rare ore to mobs only. Its a win/win because active play and afk doesn't collide thus doesn't devalue each other. Simple math AV never understood.

Imagine how crazy and crappy it would be if mines gave thick leather. Simply when they moved regular leather and cloth out of vendor, it created so much activity from the original.

DND watered down certain mastery gear. It is not a coincidence that these are all tied to mines. Ub3rgames now admitted it was wrong to only rely on enchanting mats as end game.
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 04:59:13 am by lambdaExpression

Re: Mines
Reply #4
The short answer is that mostly no, but sometimes yes.
The current mines become better than old mines in raw mats around 15-20+ using them daily.
The variable regen rates both lower and increase the daily outcome if well spread out, but in general, the output was calculated back then to be similar.
Since release we've received quite a few bug reports regarding mines not regenerating fast enough, when they were simply over tapped and the clan had pushed the diminishing return of the regen too far.

The desirable differences are that:
- There is less clan/alliance drama, and even blues can be tolerated to some extent.
- the mine is never empty for raiders, so at least they do not do the trip for nothing,
- and low active clans don't benefit as much.

Knowing that, maybe the argument to be made here is that clan nodes themselves were/are an issue?
On our end we do see them as a potential source of value for holdings, a sort of trickle of resources that benefits .

@lambdaExpression
It was about localization, not end-game. We also used rare materials as source of localization too, but their ties to ranks is a potential issue.
Essentially, we're wondering if we have not localized enough commodities by keeping only high end resources or bonus resources as local.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Mines
Reply #5
I seem to recall old DFO mines pumping out about 400 ore every 90 minutes or so?  If so, then 3-4 people hitting a DND Mine would produce that much.  And there are some DND mines that have way WAY more than 3-4 people hitting them, or at least there were when activity was at its peak. 

@Ub3rgames  When you say 15-20 people per day, do you mean 15-20 people draining it ONCE per day?  Because one person with two alts who works from home can probably drain it 20 times just between him and his alts in a given day.   So one person could Mine the equivalent of a DFO mine himself... and now every person in an Alliance has the capacity to do so.
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 07:33:08 am by Rimamok

Re: Mines
Reply #6
Man please don't encourage any type of nerf of mines. Every decision made in this version of DF has come from the emphasis of grind/tedium/pain in the living ass. If one area is too easy, or provides a bit more reward than it maybe should, we should throw a mother fucking parade instead of thinking how we can reduce it.

Re: Mines
Reply #7
These individual instanced mines are yet another alt2win mechanic :(

Re: Mines
Reply #8
But then they have to pay monthly sub on all those alts... :D :D :D

For as bad as you can imagine mining city nodes with alts is being exploited, its probably worse than you imagine.  For every person out there with 1 alt, there's several with 3, for every person with 3, there's a bunch with 5.  And for all those guys thinking 5 alts is a lot, there's that video of Enclave using a script to log out 16 alts at once under attack at that yssam grove in the video section.

Let's just say there's gonna be a lot of 100 weaponsmith mastery crafters running around really damn soon.

The real suggestion here should be a physical title for Sithra's, cuz we all gon' have a bank full of em.
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:46:00 pm by Oddjob

Re: Mines
Reply #9
Knowing that, maybe the argument to be made here is that clan nodes themselves were/are an issue?
yes. If anyone wants to read more on the subject:
https://forums.darkfallnewdawn.com/index.php/topic,9500.0.html

On our end we do see them as a potential source of value for holdings
For clan nodes, they are meant to represent a single decent wilderness node per player.
Each player needs more than that by themselves and should go out for more
you need to decide as you clearly contradict yourself. Once you say city nodes add value to holdings other time you say they represent no more than a single decent wilderness node. In other words nothing special. So make up your mind. They are either something that gives value to a holding or an equivalent of a single decent node (hundreds of them in the world).
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 06:46:43 pm by wildNothing

Re: Mines
Reply #10
So make up your mind. They are either something that gives value to a holding or an equivalent of a single decent node (hundreds of them in the world).
The difference between a Mine and a decent wilderness node is, that the Mine is per-player hitting it, the wilderness node is not. Thus a Mine gives value to the holding.

Re: Mines
Reply #11
The short answer is that mostly no, but sometimes yes.
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You should recomend the game to new players. It's never been in a better state

Re: Mines
Reply #12


Myself, I tap a Mine at bedtime, quickly at breakfast, and again as I log in for a nightly play session
you are not in your sane mind then,if you mining resurses in dead game. Or you simply dont see real situation with game.
Its a real waste of time to tap a mine even in AFK mode. You want resurses for future gaming? No,you will not have future in this game.
  • Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 09:19:37 pm by 4ifirnul

Re: Mines
Reply #13

- the mine is never empty for raiders, so at least they do not do the trip for nothing,

the raiders come to mine to get pvp throught system alerts,not for resourses

Re: Mines
Reply #14

- There is less clan/alliance drama,

yeah there is less drama,but there is 30 alts with unlimited resources.