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race wars
Race Wars actually are beginning to work.

Good job @Ub3rgames on removing majority of lawless areas and finally introducing ARAC penalties. When I meet a blue player on a spawn I actually feel safer. The chance he attacks me is really low. If I die he reses me, as looting is also alignment related. If we get attacked we fight together.

Somehow game settings slowly build racial bond and this is refreshing after years of mindless FFA killing. A success that might save darkfall.

You have to realize though, that there is a serious flaw in the whole concept. That everything described above you achieved is being undermined by villages in current form. Lawless areas are the biggest Race Wars enemy. Current village concept is faulty. It works against main game goals, against fundamental game concept. @Ub3rgames You should look at this, and remove this incoherence. I guess it's not an easy task, and I don't have an answer/fix to this but the flaw is apparent. It's also not an easy task, as it's important for villages to somehow remain pvp content. If anyone has any ideas/suggestions I will gladly participate in the discussion.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:15:16 am by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #1
Race Wars actually are beginning to work.

Good job @Ub3rgames on removing majority of lawless areas and finally introducing ARAC penalties. When I meet a blue player on a spawn I actually feel safer. The chance he attacks me is really low. If I die he reses me, as looting is also alignment related. If we get attacked we fight together.

Somehow game settings slowly build racial bond and this is refreshing after years of mindless FFA killing. A success that might save darkfall.

You have to realize though, that there is a serious flaw in the whole concept. That everything described above you achieved is being undermined by villages in current form. Lawless areas are the biggest Race Wars enemy. Current village concept is faulty. It works against main game goals, against fundamental game concept. @Ub3rgames You should look at this, and remove this incoherence. I guess it's not an easy task, and I don't have an answer/fix to this but the flaw is apparent. It's also not an easy task, as it's important for villages to somehow remain pvp content. If anyone has any ideas/suggestions I will gladly participate in the discussion.

Are you trolling because you used to say its terrible, flame everyone, the devs, the game overall and then you said you quit the game?

The game is fine, its already moving towards carebear because of the trolls, same thing happened to Darkfall Unholy Wars and then it died. Leave it the way it is FFS, do not ruin the game anymore.

Villages are fine! Leave PVP in the game. Stay hardcore in a full loot game, their are only 3 full loot games on the market right now out of the 100+ carebear mmos that are all similar.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:34:01 am by xzxDJxzx Terrorize

Re: race wars
Reply #2
@xzxDJxzx Terrorize
meh, there always has to be a poster like this in a thread so I'm glad we are over it already. I never said race wars are a terrible idea. I never said I quit the game. No one here said anything about full loot removal. Full loot should and will stay. Looks like you spam same generic responses. Also most of what you wrote has nothing to do with me or with the problem described in my post. So, please read again.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:56:12 am by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #3
If you made VCPs flip on an 8 hour timer, and had them only attackable by enemy races, then you'd have a winner. eg timer goes live for X minutes, can be attacked by enemy race and defended by racial "owner". Rewards dished out to winning group.

That's a simple example with no detail, but you get the idea.

Re: race wars
Reply #4
If you made VCPs flip on an 8 hour timer, and had them only attackable by enemy races, then you'd have a winner. eg timer goes live for X minutes, can be attacked by enemy race and defended by racial "owner". Rewards dished out to winning group.

That's a simple example with no detail, but you get the idea.
yeah, but the devil's in the details. To whom should the reward go? To all race alliance, no matter if they were present? Or to present clans only? Should it be a percentage determined by numbers? What if some clans place naked alts there and do not fight at all?

And what is most important - what if attackers or defenders do not show up at all? It will strip participants of PvP as they obviously would not be able to fight each other if lawless area was changed into race objective. And we don't have a lot of content in the game.. It's not as easy as it seems.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 12:36:03 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #5
Another simple solution is to ally with friendly racial clans.
Clans can manage this on a case by case basis.

If they are not allies then what happens at VCP's stays at VCP's.
Chunder McBushpig
Token Horde Australian

Re: race wars
Reply #6
Another simple solution is to ally with friendly racial clans.
Clans can manage this on a case by case basis.

If they are not allies then what happens at VCP's stays at VCP's.

With how villages currently work, allies don't get the reward winners get. Hence some clans merging into bigger clans
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: race wars
Reply #7
Another simple solution is to ally with friendly racial clans.
Clans can manage this on a case by case basis.

If they are not allies then what happens at VCP's stays at VCP's.

Nope. Race wars concept is not something that clans should be able to enable or disable (by means of allying or not) on their choosing without any consequences. Because that destroys race wars concept for everyone.

ARAC penalties are a consequence of decision to not participate in Race Wars. What you suggest allows killing your own race without consequences in villages (what we have now).
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 12:33:38 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #8
Having race based village capture can't work when the village capping rewards are tied to players. No way around it.

If we want proper race capping of villages, I think villages should have more to do with territory control and bonus and not "loot". Med points at most. And villages giving a bonus to drops in the area for the race that owns it, similar to how dfuw did it (several connected villages gives size and % bonus), would make more sense, scale less with ALTs, encourage activity and teamwork during and after village fights. The "downside" is that reds of the same race would also benefit from it, unless red status disabled those bonuses. The other obvious issue would be that it would remove a medium scale PvP activity to replace it by a large scale one. Which I all not sure is good at all. It would increase house values in villages that are often capped by your race though, which would be good in combination with the respawn change.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 12:45:19 pm by Asdrael

Re: race wars
Reply #9
The other obvious issue would be that it would remove a medium scale PvP activity to replace it by a large scale one. Which I all not sure is good at all.
The problem is, it could replace medium scale PvP with no pvp at all. Some villages are in locations that will not get contested by other races at all. Same are simply in locations dominated by one race.

Re: race wars
Reply #10
The problem is, it could replace medium scale PvP with no pvp at all. Some villages are in locations that will not get contested by other races at all. Same are simply in locations dominated by one race.
If the bonus areas merge and get cumulative, you would still be encouraged to cap "around" your main hub. Borders would naturally emerge, focusing the conflicts. And some isolated and "uninteresting"villages could be made vital by being a major central connector between two bigger areas, etc. But it would require overlaying a smartly map influence map over the actual map. And properly balanced bonuses, so it doesn't end up largely ignored like in dfuw. Heh.

Re: race wars
Reply #11
There's are lots of ways the dev could go with changing VCPs to be fundamentally race faction oriented and to organize incentivize "raid" style attacks.  For example, on the main continent, distance from one's capital city increases VCP rewards dramatically.   A different set of rules might be needed elsewhere.

Whatever is done, I suspect it'd be a code intensive change, but a critical one.

Re: race wars
Reply #12
The problem is, it could replace medium scale PvP with no pvp at all. Some villages are in locations that will not get contested by other races at all. Same are simply in locations dominated by one race.
If the bonus areas merge and get cumulative, you would still be encouraged to cap "around" your main hub. Borders would naturally emerge, focusing the conflicts. And some isolated and "uninteresting"villages could be made vital by being a major central connector between two bigger areas, etc. But it would require overlaying a smartly map influence map over the actual map. And properly balanced bonuses, so it doesn't end up largely ignored like in dfuw. Heh.
yep, thought about same thing, that incentives would have to be solid, for people to go to remote areas. And as you said - racial rewards, definitely not personal, maybe not even clan related. But then - would that kind of incentive (racial) be solid enough to make people travel for 30+ minutes and at the same time wouldn't this solid incentive (buff of some sort I guess) be game breaking when it comes to small scale pvp or even pvp in general?
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:16:41 pm by wildNothing

Re: race wars
Reply #13
Quick examples of how stuff could work:

Each village has its area of influence AoI. Each gives a specific bonus, applying to the whole continuous AoI (certain villages being the only "link" between two non continuous areas for example).

Villages inside racial areas could provide 10% increase in something. PvE related mostly. Harvesting speed. Skin yield. Skillups. Reg conservation chance. Capping several could give an area with like 10% harvesting, 20% skin yield, 30% reg conservation.

Villages between racial areas could give more related PvP bonuses, but"peripheral" PvP related. Like 10% asset for bonus within the RoI (pré siège village planning ?).10% increased missile speed. No thing like "fireball now decaps your mom" direct player buff. Could even have villages give food duration buffs.

Sea villages giving 10% boat speed.

The bonuses only apply to blue members of the racial alliances while they are in the AoI.


The main thing being: cap a village, but your ACTIVITY between villages is what brings you rewards. And get a strategical option to put a blow to enemy races efficiency by fighting in their area.

Dfuw AoI system was good, it even included cities which would work here also somewhat since the game is supposed to be more localized. It was bland and not meaningful enough to make people care though.

Disclaimers: numbers mostly pulled from between buttcheeks.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:30:53 pm by Asdrael

Re: race wars
Reply #14
...
The game is fine, its already moving towards carebear because of the trolls, same thing happened to Darkfall Unholy Wars and then it died. Leave it the way it is FFS, do not ruin the game anymore.

Villages are fine! Leave PVP in the game. Stay hardcore in a full loot game, their are only 3 full loot games on the market right now out of the 100+ carebear mmos that are all similar.

In what way is the game moving toward carebear?

All versions of Darkfall, imho, have failed in part because they're pointless FPS gankboxes with grind and the vast majority of players get tired of the banality.  They realize after a month or so that this is all stupid and they might as well just go play a regular FPS where they get to hit the spacebar and respawn with all their equipment again.

Any game that requires a serious commitment of time and energy like this one and that might capture years of a player's interest; and of planning, character building, territory control, and resource management needs to have a "meaningful" lore, where there is a storied backdrop, where there is some enduring purposeful structure to the game's activities other than "good fights."

"Good fights" are toxic. Cooperative competition is bad. This is a sporting mentality. A real RPG lore game will want to literally take over or destroy every enemy holding and drive them back to their NPC cities, without mercy.  Back in the Ultima Online early days, some guilds were repeatedly so demoralized by being hunted down in a systematic fashion that players made new characters in some cases. (Edit: but this level of passionate hate among players (red vs blue usually) also absorbed players for years and lead to interesting meta such as spying and infiltration, etc.)

Such is why the 3 faction + red faction system is so important to thoroughly hard code into the game.

There is a welcome place too for the FPS mentality in DND, and that's to play as a red outcast player, which is harder mode.
  • Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:10:21 pm by Crisply Vague