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Topic: Let's dream a bit. (Read 1680 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #15
We're actually doing something in this spirit.

There will be gathering titles that will reverse resources and reagents ratios when harvesting, there will be localized bulk market places and we will tie NPC prices to an inflation monitoring system so that they always are the most expensive price(gold sink) but convenient even in underdeveloped market hubs.(we can't have people run out of "ammo")

It will serve the same purpose as removing NPCs, but with other advantages.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #16
Something in the vein of the Caravans...

Not sure if anyone here played the original Planetside but it is basically the DFO to Planetside 2's DFUW.

Now, bases in Planetside required power in order to run. No power = no spawning at that base, no using the terminal to regear, no spawning vehicles, no base shields... nothing. It was easy to keep them powered up, just refill them from the power truck. The trick was, the power trucks spawned empty of course. The only way to fill the power truck was to go to one of only 3 power sources on the planet. You had to drive the truck to the source, fill it, then get back into the base and deploy the truck at the refueling site in the base. This allowed a faction that was losing ground on a planet to sort of "cut off reinforcements" by sending crews to ambush the trucks on the roads to the power sources.

This type of feature I think could fit well in a NewDawn-style Darkfall. Obviously the resource wouldn't be power, maybe food/supplies to match the medieval setting, but to make a player city have to send a player with a caravan of sorts to pick up a supply bundle from a Chaos city could be awesome. If a city was allowed to go "unpowered" then the crafting stations and towers would cease working there or something to that effect. In essence it's another style of trade route, but a necessary one.

Edit: they actually mentioned there being almost this EXACT thing being in the game way back before release. Was yet another thing on the list of great ideas that never came about.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #17
Wouldn't our special resources necessary for clan buffs provide that type of gameplay?

As a reminder, each player holding produces a single type of special resource. Each player character impacted by a clan buff consumes one of each resource type. The more resource types are stored in the cities holds, the stronger the buffs are. There is local banking in New Dawn.

Effectively, a city that has been cut off will be at a disadvantage. mathematically, a lack of buff is equal to a debuff, and supply runs will have to occur often enough to trade and keep the city inhabitants well fed. It should provide the incentives to create caravans to faraway places, or for traders to specialize in the sales of special resources. We also have the raid stone system to directly impact a city's resources reserves.

On the other hand, we're also expanding the trade route system, and they will be providing loot and perhaps even meditation points. It would serve as an entry level trade system, until players get involved enough in the world to start doing player driven trades.

Racial War fronts are a pretty young concept regarding new Dawn, but it is inspired in equal parts by DAOC and Planetside. An ANT style system could very well be part of it as a second or third iteration. It would be in the spirit of Warfronts being a training ground for clan warfare.

You'll see in today's news what we mean by "entry level".
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #18
Must have missed this in my initial read through of the site, sorry. Went back and found it.

It sounds great and I feel it could absolutely fulfill that type of role.
However, the basic difference between this system and the ANT system is the ANT system was a removal. This is an addition. Instead of all members of the impacted faction/clan/tribe/outfit/whatever sharing equally in the localized loss of base-level utility/operation, this system will have a small segment of the population being afforded a bonus to their effectiveness. If you live out of an NPC city you are wholly excluded from the system?

My worry is that it's a "win more" situation that applies to the few, rather than a tool usable by many.

Hopefully that made sense? I'm sure you guys have already worked through all this though so I'm interested to know your thoughts/reasoning on why you chose this style of system.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #19
As we said, a lack of buff is mathematically equivalent to a debuff.
However the impact it has on player psychology is different. Earning a reward is perceived differently than receiving a punishment. One serve as a motivation while the other serves as a potential exit point.

A similar concept is how food is implemented in Darkfall compared to survival games. Rather than getting a regeneration debuff when starving, a character gets a regeneration buff when fed. Both are equal in impact and just as necessary, but the perception makes one acceptable while the other becomes a hassle in the player mind.

We also want to keep some of the most complex mechanics tiered, so that a newer or a more casual player doesn't have to deal with all the complexities of the game. Owning land should be a choice that unlocks new complexities but also new gains, as a balance of advantages/drawbacks. Living out from a starter city, life should be easy and be focused around the player improving itself.

You then have various steps preparing players to more complex mechanics. A social and mechanical learning curve if you will.
A player will be accompanied through NPC trade routes, player driven trade, an eventual ANT system in racial War fronts and finally the fully player driven special resources for player holdings.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #20
Fair enough. A positive incentive for a game should be more compelling than a negative one.

Food is an interesting example to use though, as it was so easily available even a player with 5min logged and 2 goblins killed would likely have access to it. The "more powerful" versions of it solely effected its duration, a quality of life change as opposed to a balance one. So while there was benefit many players pursued to having the more "potent" food buff, and it was something you had to have, it could never have been seen as a hassle or exit point because of how easy it was to get. You just had to decide how easy you wanted to make your life.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #21
PLEASE  ! ! !
understand the mentality of the people interested in this game and with features like Anti carpal tunnel being less effective than spamming the mouse, nobody is going to use it and lets face the reality, the guy will just use an auto click which will be maximize melee dps. Same thing applies to looting... there are easy to install auto loot out there that are undetectable. Do you think people will use your damned thing if it is slower than looting by hand when there are options available out there to be even faster ?

Secondly, Please make the RayS macros that every good pvper were using part of the game so we dont all have to install third party programs. Make it heavily custumizable. Also include a way to make our character spend reagents while online to level up being AFK and risking yourself to lose everything.

It made cities worth something during the night. You could macro inside and be somewhat safe and it also made it so people who attack get free loot.

Not including these built in macros in the game UI wont change the fact that people WILL use them. if you try to not permit this, you will simply fail and people will go play on Rise of Agon
  • Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 08:49:15 pm by Imfamous

  • Fnights
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Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #22
PLEASE  ! ! !
understand the mentality of the people interested in this game and with features like Anti carpal tunnel being less effective than spamming the mouse, nobody is going to use it and lets face the reality, the guy will just use an auto click which will be maximize melee dps. Same thing applies to looting... there are easy to install auto loot out there that are undetectable. Do you think people will use your damned thing if it is slower than looting by hand when there are options available out there to be even faster ?

I get banned for 1 hour+a GM warning  because i used this macro only 2 times, so instant loot is detectable server side (and despicable). I regret use it because wasn't in the spirit of the game. There is a reason why they implement the drag & drpg loot system, because they want you waste time to loot someone else. Risk vs reward.

Quote
Secondly, Please make the RayS macros that every good pvper were using part of the game so we dont all have to install third party programs. Make it heavily custumizable. Also include a way to make our character spend reagents while online to level up being AFK and risking yourself to lose everything.

They will implement a global cd on all the spells of the same type and between schools, you can't cast instant rays anymore, so macro will be useless in this case.

I hope Uber will ban people who try to macro AFK or make the need for macro useless, AFK tasks are bad for the game, the first impression a player can have is of a game that require tedious grind and repetitiveness to advance. Already forget the macro era, bloodwalls and geometry exploits?

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Not including these built in macros in the game UI wont change the fact that people WILL use them. if you try to not permit this, you will simply fail and people will go play on Rise of Agon.

With active GM, report, and server side detection, is possible to limit the problem to quasi zero. The fact that AV never banned macroers is because they didn't want to loose these subs, they barely ban cheaters too for the same reason, even with video as a proof.
I don't want this crap anymore, i want a clean game, count me and my guildmates to report all these macroers to a GM if macroing will be a violation of the tos.

ps: Where did you read that ROA will allow macroers? I believe i read somewhere on reddit that they will make the need of macroing obsolete, but if is true then is very detrimental for the game, expecially fro new players.
  • Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 11:10:04 pm by Fnights
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Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #23
@Imfamous
Welcome to the forums.

Your first point:
The purpose of these measures is to provide an accepted and advertised way of avoiding otherwise mandatory strain.
It is not meant to be competitive but convenient. We consider them to be the only ethical use of macros because they are fluff to prevent some people from suffering physical pain. We will implement similar fluff, or quality of life, features in the interface like generic melee abilities buttons (whirlwind is one button no matter the weapon) and multi slots (weapon and shield, staff and default spell, etc)

These quality of life changes will allow "normal" people to use them without having to jump the barrier of entry of installing or knowing about macros and will help us differentiate between cheaters and people taking care of their bodies.
It clears out this grey area and let's us be ruthless.

As said by @Fnights these macros were detectable server side, but not often pursued with punishment. With a legal alternative, we can be a lot less lenient and automatically consider their use kick/ban worthy without human involvement.

Your second point:
Aside from the few examples given above, where macroing was a way to fight the bad interface, implementing a general in game macroing interface is treating the symptom rather than the issue itself.
People macroed in Darkfall not only because they could but because they had to. If you don't solve the reason, the issue is just swept under the rug.

Our solution will be to make every instance of macroing we are aware of either impossible or useless.

For instance, the shared cooldown mechanic, be it on rays or other abilities, has a double purpose of removing the need of having in-fight macros but also reduces the need of leveling multiple schools/weapon types.

In addition, for instant cast rays, we will offer multiple "variations" of behaviors:
- The launch style ray that was a slightly weaker bolt with instant travel
- A channeled ray, like a flamethrower or a Sith Force lightning.
- A charge up form which could be instant cast but with damage/cost proportional to charge up time.
- A rail gun form with a short delay between click and cast and a very long shared cooldown.

This way, players have a choice of how they want these spells to behave for them and we make an interesting feature out of a "nerf".

In the same spirit, our title system will allow players to have narrower playstyles rather than having to grind everything. Alongside implementing diminishing returns on stats and skills, it will reduce the power gap greatly. Essentially reducing the drive to macro players would feel.

This allows us to crack down on leveling macros by implementing our engaged system.
The system will simply prevent any skill ups when not engaged with a monster spawn. But on another hand, the engaged system will increase challenge and skillups drastically as players group up and fight alongside one another.
In this case we are redirecting humans' drive to min max away from boring grind/macroing and towards playing as a group and having fun. Much more interesting gameplay wise than allowing macroing.

Following that logic, we will expand the meditation system to be available for all combat skills/abilities and stats in the game.
Meditation points will no longer be purchased by gold but will come as quest and PvP rewards.
Players should be able to level their characters by doing what they love most: Exploring (quests), raiding (PvE scaling) and PvP (villages and warfronts)

Finally, we will have other ways of making cities worth it both as a resident and as a raider.
Specifically, our special resources leading to city buffs and the raids that allow to loot them.

All these features would be either redundant, obsolete or inexistant by accepting macroing as a fatality.
We prefer to make the game fun, even if it is the longer road.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #24
Player controlled mobs. You and your clan for example could log on and have a char slot for a mob. You could all roll (made up example) Goblins. You all get a certain amount of skills and attacks you can do or magic abilities. Then you and your clan could roll around on goblin controlled chars and zerg cities or people. When you played the mob chars you couldnt loot anyone you killed it would just be for the sake of killing people. It would make it interesting to fight monsters that are not AI but real people.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #25
This could be an interesting concept that would allow us to experiment with opt-in permadeath.
A sort of extreme risk vs reward ratio where you need to survive but also you need to fight players to progress.
This could come as an expansion a few years after launch.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #26
Player controlled mobs. You and your clan for example could log on and have a char slot for a mob. You could all roll (made up example) Goblins. You all get a certain amount of skills and attacks you can do or magic abilities. Then you and your clan could roll around on goblin controlled chars and zerg cities or people. When you played the mob chars you couldnt loot anyone you killed it would just be for the sake of killing people. It would make it interesting to fight monsters that are not AI but real people.
Very cool idea I would like to see what they could do with this.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #27
I would like to see the option to transform into the various forms of wildlife.
'Combat will be great - The reason combat will be great is because we will make it great - However, if combat isn't great we will change it so that combat is great, therefore - Combat will be great.' paraphrased from the core circular logic answer to all questions department

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #28
Have events based around celestial alignments.  Ex.  Certain moon alignments cause certain creatures to spawn across the map.  I wouldnt mind a global event that would spawn hordes of creatures that caused people to run in fear to the cities to hide behind walls.

Re: Let's dream a bit.
Reply #29
I wouldn't mind seeing some RP friendly additions added to the game or just some more sandbox type elements or toys to play around with to break up some of the gameplay and allow some creative player interaction/involvement.  Also helps add some social distraction and immersion.  It's been so long since I've played, I can't remember if you could sit in chairs or if that was ever updated, other than just resting on the ground.  I just really like the small attention to detail some games put in that help this area out, even if I don't personally engage in it too often, it is kind of cool to come across once in awhile.

For RP
Some ideas:
- Sitting/gathering for meetings (visual immersion)
- Ability to make and write in books or custom maps, maybe for trade purposes and organization for banking and economics (distractions/sandbox elements/tools)...maybe even to have couriers deliver important messages, which could also be intercepted and used for spying or clan diplomacy type negotiations, etc...that may be pretty far out there haha.
- With that idea, couriers could actually be a cool edition if anything did get created.  Maybe they can have a quicker mount speed, but they only are fast when travelling very lightly (ie delivering messages of being an informant and can only carry some basic items with them to get this bonus). They could also help deliver money or small high value items to different banks without needing to use the NPC market, which could be great for clans looking to distribute wealth to a lot of places for a cheaper rate, but still have some risk involved.  The disadvantage is they can't carry a lot, but they can carry high cost items and move faster.
- Add some ways to host competitive games, maybe like archery shooting or some sort of fighters/arena's guild to brawl and setup rewards (maybe gambling) on who would win and you could stake money on others as well. (Maybe this could take place mostly in chaotic cities to give rogue players some fun perks or at least the gambling aspect and outlaw gambling for the Blue cities but allow brawling)
- Fishing improvements / secrets / extra items that are extremely rare but help spark deep sea fishers to farm and explore more dangerous waters

Crafting
One crafting oriented change I thought would be neat...
- Allow a maxed (w/ max title) level crafter name a weapon or piece of armor that they craft at the highest level - maybe they have to add more resources to do this, but man...they put 150% of their efforts into this one item fit for a king.  Give it a slight bonus to damage or dura or maybe a unique bonus or appearance based on the race.  These could only be made by the very best crafters and maybe it is also still a low possibility (very low proc chance) that it could even happen.  These items would be extremely rare though and worth their value...

Some tweaking obviously to the crafting idea, but could make for some prideful gameplay for those focused intensely on trade skills.  I like the changes already in route for crafters, going for icing on the cake.

Just a few ideas I had off the top of my head and trying to keep from going crazy waiting for this to come! =)
  • Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 02:23:01 pm by Moriens