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Topic: Need help understand this (Read 505 times) previous topic - next topic

Need help understand this
I have 71 Str, using 1h Club R60 .68 at 44 Mastery with Melee Physical Tilte : Brawler, Warrior all maxed
My gear is Full Infernal + 2 FP + Shredder Shield for a 27.09 Slashing Resist.

My opponent is Maxed Str and Mastery with a GreatAxe R50 .84 + Keen 0.08.
Thick Chest, Helmet, pants and armguard + FP for a 11.63 Bludgeon Resist and 7.3 Melee Damage
His Melee Physical Title are Vet, GA and Bruiser all maxed.

He's hitting me for 20.57
I'm hitting him for 18.94

I know that without his Thick Armor he's doing 16.18 damage per hit so I'm trying to understand if Damage bonus from leather is OP or is it because I'm still too low on STR and Mastery to compete or high enchant keen or that I really need that 6% damage from weapon title too? Because so far I find that gearing Infernal with 1h weapon/shield suck alot and wondering if there is not only one way to play and that it is Light Armor for the better dps in melee and range while having less encumbrance to cast spell or go mage.
  • Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 02:27:57 am by Player One

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #1
A more detailed answer is probably better coming from someone like Wyverex, But one clear factor missing in your assessment is attack speed. Just comparing single hit damage isn't telling you much when your one handed club is able to land more hits in comparison to his Great Axe.

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #2
A more detailed answer is probably better coming from someone like Wyverex, But one clear factor missing in your assessment is attack speed. Just comparing single hit damage isn't telling you much when your one handed club is able to land more hits in comparison to his Great Axe.
Yeah you're right about attack speed but how can I do that low damage on a 11.63 resist while him making more on a 27 slashing resist. I know that hes using a keen 0.08 on a .84 weapon and mine is .68 but other than that It's hard to tell where he's getting that boost compare to me because with 71 str and 44 mastery there shouldnt be that much difference with the frontloading thing. Is that .84 vs .68 way more important than 11 vs 27 resist?

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #3
Because leather armor trait ridiculously OP and clubs are underpowered. Combine the two and you get this kind of situation. Then factor in stamina regen and attack speed.

The bonus should never have been attack damage AND speed for archery AND melee.
  • Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 08:01:06 am by Asdrael

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #4
Armor traits destroyed the game. It is especially visible with mastery level gear. Damage and speed boosts are too high. But ub3r wanted classes in darkfall, so here we go.

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #5
Armor traits destroyed the game. It is especially visible with mastery level gear. Damage and speed boosts are too high. But ub3r wanted classes in darkfall, so here we go.

I don't think they wanted classes so much as viability in different builds, which play differently. In DFO all you had was a bunch of clones.
Did you know you can ignore toxic posters, stopping the forum from showing you the text of their posts? Starving trolls eventually move on. Please don't feed the trolls.

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #6
First of all, was your opponent an Ork?
Because, until Ub3rgames reworks racial bonuses, Orks have a passive that increases damage specifically with Greataxes.

Secondly, Stats & Skills don't account for too much damage - it mostly comes from weapon itself.
Going from 68 Str to 100 Str accounts for only ~0,55 dmg per hit. Similar for going from ~40 mastery to 100 mastery.

Thirdly - enchant matters a lot. You're comparing a 0.68 and 0.96 weapons.

Also, Leather compounds all of the bonuses he had (from higher str, higher skill, etc) because armor damage bonus is multiplicative with your base, and on top of that it's multiplicative with title bonuses.

PS clubs and greatclubs are still underpowered :(
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #7
[...]The bonus should never have been attack damage AND speed for archery AND melee.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Leather armor should be split between melee or archery damage/speed, not both. Either that or give bone armor and metal armor melee damage/speed. I'd also like to see Armor trait values decreased and Titles increased.

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #8
[...]The bonus should never have been attack damage AND speed for archery AND melee.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Leather armor should be split between melee or archery damage/speed, not both. Either that or give bone armor and metal armor melee damage/speed. I'd also like to see Armor trait values decreased and Titles increased.
Also formula should be changed from "trait x title" to "trait + title". They went too far. DPS generated by pure builds is insane compared to hybrids. Pure builds should be better in the main area but what we have now is too much. Instead of introducing many different playstyles DND locks us into classes.
  • Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:16:45 am by wildNothing

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #9
Title bonus = armor trait bonus. They both bonus %.
So, 0 bonususes 0 minuses from titles + 12 armor trait = 12 title bonus + 0 armor trait.
But when you add Armor traits to the Title you wukk get not 12+12%, you will get less....Simple math.

Plus it is depend on where you doing your tests. Like an example if you doing it in player city, and you are not in clan that OWN this city, you will deal 3 point's less damage than your oponent, who in clan own this city.

Plus i think your data is wrong.

Just on my experiance: i have 3 magic schools + 1h axe. Using mix of bone+leather. ~+7\5 melee\magic traits. 1h axe r60 + keen (0.8 damage totall)
And against my target in studded +3 fp parts with r60.

We dealing each other ~same damage. Im using shield, thick + gbone + shield = ~16 slashing, his slashing ~10. He have +12 from titles (GS+Warrior) + 8 from leather. I have 7 melee and 0 from titles. His str(80+) > than my 75.

Better do video next time or more detailed data

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #10
12% bonus from title, 12% bonus from armor => 25,44% total bonus, as it's multiplicative. It was confirmed by Ub3rgames.
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #11
First of all, was your opponent an Ork?
Because, until Ub3rgames reworks racial bonuses, Orks have a passive that increases damage specifically with Greataxes.

Secondly, Stats & Skills don't account for too much damage - it mostly comes from weapon itself.
Going from 68 Str to 100 Str accounts for only ~0,55 dmg per hit. Similar for going from ~40 mastery to 100 mastery.

Thirdly - enchant matters a lot. You're comparing a 0.68 and 0.96 weapons.

Also, Leather compounds all of the bonuses he had (from higher str, higher skill, etc) because armor damage bonus is multiplicative with your base, and on top of that it's multiplicative with title bonuses.

PS clubs and greatclubs are still underpowered :(
We are both Ork same clan. I know that weapon damage is important but that much compare to my 27.09 resist slashing vs his 11.63? I'm wearing full Infernal with the best in game shield and he's  wearing mid end game gear. He's better at range and melee with lower ranked gear than me so how can I compete? Don't wanna think of the damage people will do when they'll gear end game light armor. It looks like heavy armor are restricted to pve tank wich is useless in Darkfall. Maybe it's just that 1h+shield suck and I should go with 2h or dagger instead though.
  • Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:55:22 am by Player One

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #12
12% bonus from title, 12% bonus from armor => 25,44% total bonus, as it's multiplicative. It was confirmed by Ub3rgames.

To be more precise, he have 14 % (6+4+4) from title and 7.3% from armor and that 7.3 gives him 4.39 more damage per hit. We did the test with and without.

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #13
1h club is definitely underpowered at the moment (but several months ago Ub3rgames said they wanna buff Polearm, Greatclub and Club).

And damage difference between those two weapons is huge, plus Leather really increases the gap even more


12% bonus from title, 12% bonus from armor => 25,44% total bonus, as it's multiplicative. It was confirmed by Ub3rgames.

To be more precise, he have 14 % (6+4+4) from title and 7.3% from armor and that 7.3 gives him 4.39 more damage per hit. We did the test with and without.
12 was just an example to showcase how multiplication affects end result.
Wyverex Erisian, SG of Scrubs


Still a member of SaltyBitches™ Club

Re: Need help understand this
Reply #14
1h club is definitely underpowered at the moment (but several months ago Ub3rgames said they wanna buff Polearm, Greatclub and Club).

And damage difference between those two weapons is huge, plus Leather really increases the gap even more


12% bonus from title, 12% bonus from armor => 25,44% total bonus, as it's multiplicative. It was confirmed by Ub3rgames.

To be more precise, he have 14 % (6+4+4) from title and 7.3% from armor and that 7.3 gives him 4.39 more damage per hit. We did the test with and without.
12 was just an example to showcase how multiplication affects end result.
Do you know the maths for the damage vs resist? I'm curious to know how great .24 weapon damage difference is vs 15.46 resist difference.