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Messages - Natris

1
General Discussion / Re: balance
We REALLY need the spell changes in ASAP. Without stormblast/knockups working (and many not having all no-keystone utilities), melee rush is deadly.
2
Bugs & Feedbacks / Re: Fair criticism
TBH the alignment is fucked up in sieges to the level when I would ninja reset alignment when the fundamental changes to it are made. Not making siege stones etc. go people grey is their fuckup.
3
Suggestions / Re: Spawn scaling
It seems easy on paper but in practice it would take a lot of development time. I would prefer quick fix with having possibility to manipulate current scaling process rather than slow down already very slow development process, as the advantages are minimal. But that should be done ASAP.
4
Guides and Player Help / Re: Viable Magic Titles?
Taking more then 2 magic titles is not really the way to go imho. Each magic title you take makes other schools less viable because of the potency penalty.  Taking 3 means 3 times a penalty so the 6% boost if the title is max is gone.

You can not take combo twice,  i think so at least. magic school combo scholar combo melee title is not an option. If you could it would make the best hybrid build there is, with melee being a lil lower then dedicated melee player but the magic set up with only 1title makes sure your magic is strong.

Quick casting is not that great, the bonus scholar gives you includes casting time so i would throw it out. You do not need a melee title to melee, the choice of your melee weapon is important because of the penalty. Polearms become to slow avoid using that, if i would go hybrid i would use Greatswords if i would wear bone armor but would pick 1h swords/axe or clubs if i would wear robes. In robes the shield  gives me more slashimg prot or i pre cast iron skin before going melee.

Magic is being changed so dont chamge to much.
You can weapon combo scholar/warrior combo school. You are however limited by gear that is either +magic or +damage and encumb. You can easier play the "switching between melee and ranged" game against bow though, and you can have pressure when fighting mage. People say it was viable in indev.
5
General Discussion / Re: Discussion: On Alts
Third, villages are a design problem that has no clean solution I can see. Even diminishing returns will benefit small groups capping it with alts significantly.

Capping a village should give access to the gold mine node nearby.

Then no matter what time it is it would be beneficial to go try and ambush the miners at the nodes or on their way back to the city, but you would still have one moment in time where people would meet for a battle over the node.

Plus who the fuck is gonna mine all that gold from the mine if it actually takes work lol

In next patch they are making it so that all the gold goes on the person capping at the moment of cap. So you do not even have to kill gatherers, but the alts themself after the act.

And in general yes, it would be ideal to minimize effect of alts. But problem is to distinguish them from players. And the changes introduced are already hurting the innocent.
6
General Discussion / Re: Discussion: On Alts
First, limiting number of accounts is nearly impossible now: virtualisation is everywhere, vpns are everywhere, people have laptops and gaming computer and game runs fine on laptops. You are in effect asking for devs to do a whack-a-mole that takes their time and does not fix issues.

Second, villages are being changed so that they will give less for more people. TBH this is the maximum that can be done with villages, and this already hurts real people (large clans which really have a lot of people). Try to think on yourself on mechanisms that can be employed to distinguish village capping alt from player and you will see that nearly all ideas can be worked around.

Third, spawn scaling. IMO the game has fundamental flaw in that spawns do not scale ideally by themselves. The game is localized now, people are supposed to live at one place, and they want to do PvE that is fun and fulfilling. Currently the spawns are all over the place regarding difficulty. If you just want to go and farm x, chance is that you will spend half of time waiting. Alts are "fixing"this. Please note that alternative is to have large group of actual players; for instance if you get ~30 people, most of higher tier spawns are already  unkillable and you can farm all the time. Solution to this is to 1) have self regulating spawns or 2) have a way to spawn scale without alts. IMO making it harder for alts to spawn scale is fair, but it makes PvE much less fun. I would really prefer what I have recommended already (self buff making you  1 - 4 levels). People are crying about alts, but well, large clans can just make pve events and scale stuff without alts (as we have been doing). Then everyone will cry about this. Better to fix the root case IMO.
Some more things:

FIrst, I do not think "crafting alt"is an issue at all. If you want to have another account, pay for the game, spend the time levelling up crafting, and bothering with the crafting itself, I think it is fine (disclaimer: my alt has no crafting profession).

Second, I do not see a problem with "gathering alt", as long as it requires work. The nodes were already changed so that next to cities they are crap so you have to move them around much more; this is IMO fine. You get some cash off it, but you also have to bother with it, can get ganked, have to transport stuff if you gather far away. And at least it brings mats to the system, unlike money which just causes inflation and makes marketplaces not working. Advanced mining gear and so on would help though.

Third, villages are a design problem that has no clean solution I can see. Even diminishing returns will benefit small groups capping it with alts significantly.

Fourth, city nodes are not an issue in an inhabited city as the diminishing returns there are quite brutal (Today mine gave me under 20 iron after 10 hours) , but are problematic with small clans.

Fifth, combat alts. I have never thought this would be necessary but TBH with Ub3rs approach to titles, if you want to experience more playstyles, it may be the easiest way how to not gimp yourself and try something new. I personally would prefer this not being the thing.

Edit to not pollute this anymore:
I knew two guys in EvE who after comming home from work logged each their 8 characters and went mining. With logi ship giving them links, jump carrier for the ore etc. They mined for few hours and enjoyed it immensely. We want such people. We do not want passive or near passive advantage from alts, but why to limit alts otherwise? If a guy who has family and can play 2 hours a day wants to spend money on 5 alts to help him with upkeep of his main, is it bad? How does it compare for student who has 16 hours of free time? The former pays 6 subs and enjoys the game, the latter pays 1 sub and enjoys the game.

(btw I have bought an alt before the launch to support the game)
7
General Discussion / Re: Discussion: On Alts
Apparently HG you are the one failing to understand that having an alt is way different from having a second account you carry around to double up on rewards that were intended to be for active player and not per active accounts, such as village rewards, clan nodes, etc. This creates an unbalance in the economy that has to be fixed fairly for everyone. Even Ub3r finally agrees on that.

The root of the issue is that passive gameplay is 1. too rewarding and 2. produces rewards that can be transfered at close to no risks
to an actively played character. Faucets are multiplied, sinks are not.

Now the question is how to fix it. I stand by that the easiest fix in terms of benefits to investment is to limit the amount of clients that ca be connected simultaneously. The only people it will penalize are those taking advantage of the system currently in place by multiboxing certain activities, and will safeguard the people playing alongside others in a house hold. It has been proven to work in a community were multi-boxing was rampant, and almost as toxic as DF fanbase.

The better approach would be to fix the gameplay to rescale PvP (village) rewards to actual player activity and not character attendance, rework gathering to have a somewhat involving gameplay, rework scaling to force constant involvement of players, and possibly review the title system to allow different spheres of activity (combat, harvesting and crafting) to not vampirise each other while keeping players relying on each other. All of this requiring deep modifications and follow-up balance adjustments, in short long time work for devs that they probably can't afford (content, new players etc).

Now, I think you are the special snowflake trying to justify reaping the same rewards in game for less time invested. Why would you dispose of the same ressources as someone making more effort ? Because you have a deeper wallet? Other hobbies? Snowflake syndrom?

(fwiw, I have an alt).

 
First, limiting number of accounts is nearly impossible now: virtualisation is everywhere, vpns are everywhere, people have laptops and gaming computer and game runs fine on laptops. You are in effect asking for devs to do a whack-a-mole that takes their time and does not fix issues.

Second, villages are being changed so that they will give less for more people. TBH this is the maximum that can be done with villages, and this already hurts real people (large clans which really have a lot of people). Try to think on yourself on mechanisms that can be employed to distinguish village capping alt from player and you will see that nearly all ideas can be worked around.

Third, spawn scaling. IMO the game has fundamental flaw in that spawns do not scale ideally by themselves. The game is localized now, people are supposed to live at one place, and they want to do PvE that is fun and fulfilling. Currently the spawns are all over the place regarding difficulty. If you just want to go and farm x, chance is that you will spend half of time waiting. Alts are "fixing"this. Please note that alternative is to have large group of actual players; for instance if you get ~30 people, most of higher tier spawns are already  unkillable and you can farm all the time. Solution to this is to 1) have self regulating spawns or 2) have a way to spawn scale without alts. IMO making it harder for alts to spawn scale is fair, but it makes PvE much less fun. I would really prefer what I have recommended already (self buff making you  1 - 4 levels). People are crying about alts, but well, large clans can just make pve events and scale stuff without alts (as we have been doing). Then everyone will cry about this. Better to fix the root case IMO.
8
Re your last report: Spawn your mount behind a tree or something, tether it, and store stuff there. It can be used instead of strongboxes. Yu will be notified when mount takes damage or when someone is trying to get your stuff from it.
9
General Discussion / Re: Discussion: On Alts
The world is filled with spawns. It is a rare thing to find a spawn that you can, at any given moment, with your current group (a small one), in your current gear, farm so that you have minimal downtime. People usually want to farm some mob for specific drop, to get a sense of progression, and waiting for respawn is really annoying.

Alternative currently is:
-alternate between spawns - often not practicable or worth it
-downgear (you do not want to encourage this, and it is only worth it for skilling up)
-bring much more players - especially higher tier mobs become in effect infinite when reaching certain threshold, and become viable for farming in some cases (see flesh golem - solo not viable, in large group a valid target).
-bring alts

For instance, for farming thick leather, if I go solo, with my crafting alt, with decent bow and 30 archery, I have 50% downtime on the closeby spawn. Add my main, and it is only 20%. Much more enjoyable experience.

IMO good spawn where you are not waiting should be a norm. In a localized world, you do not really want bad spawns due to downtime. There is already a lot of difference in spawns with 1) location 2) terrain (tactical considerations) 3) distance from your base 4) enemy activity.

Spawns should either scale with speed of killing, or keep it as it is but make it easy to spawn scale. Via items, or self buffs.
10
General Discussion / Re: Discussion: On Alts
Alts and villages problem has no clean solution, as 5 man cap of village in the end of the world with 5 alts is not distinguishable from 10 man cap, but you are on the right direction.

Scaling via totem would be nice, or it could be done via 0, 1, 2, 3  and 4 spawn scaling self buff for the time being (no need to add any graphics etc.). IMO it should not be resource gated; having good spawn should be a default state, not a privilege.

Adding "make it harder" mechanics would eventually be cool but it is extremely hard to make so that people are not screwed by this (try to kill lvl35 forest golems which run away and regen while the rest of the spawn prevents you from attacking them)..
11
We've already addressed the concern before launch, but for those who missed that discussion:
We get that some players feel like they need alts, and that is something we intend to act upon.
As we've often said, a perception is stronger than a fact for players.

However, the reason we keep reminding players that alt proportion is negligible is to explain why it isn't high priority.
Launch did not increase the proportion of potential alts from InDev, so it is not something that worries us.
There are bugs and issues that are frustrating for the entire playerbase that are more urgent.

As for solutions regarding scaling:
- Items that allow to scale a spawn without an alt are planned,
- The efforts needed to remain engaged will be increased.
- Scaling will increase life regen, meaning that damage will need to be constantly applied for loot,
- but that will have to come with the the capping of xp per individual monsters.
- Downtime needs to be reviewed across the board.

We'd like to incorporate rewards for killing quickly, but we're very cautious about it.
A scaling per character allows diminishing returns and a controllable flow per individual in the economy.
Yes it is impacted by alts currently, but that can be fixed. A scaling based on efficiency cannot. It has increased returns and snowballs.
Though, there is something fun in being kept in a state of 'flow", so it is something we want to provide one way or another.

As a side note:
One of the reasons the monsters never descale is because we didn't want a legit group to be punished if they partially wipe at 90% and get a fraction of the loot they earned as a result.
Wouldn't you guys feel frustrated if that would occur? Or are the concerns regarding scaling high enough to accept that risk?

The item is badly needed, and needs to be cheap and fine grained. Then you do not have to do anything else from your list.

PvE should be fun and challenging. Having ideal spawn so that you have minimal downtime should be a standard. Spawns are already differentiated by the location, environment and drop table; I see no problem with all being ideal for me and my group when we farm.

Rather than nerfing spawns via regen etc, you should modify drop tables so that they are relevant to the actual group size. I guess certain nerf to golems etc. would be ideal.

This way newer characters can kill easier mobs for less loot and stronger characters stronger mobs for diminishing return increased loot.
12
Suggestions / Re: Remove Alts/Multiple Accounts
This is pointless. You technically can not prevent alts. Vpn, friend with proxy on router, notebook for alts. You actually want alts, for the devs to get more money. The problem is villages (hard to solve), spawn scaling (should be possible to do it without an alt) and alt griefing ( longer delay on red account delete or keep alignment across deletes)
13
General Discussion / Re: How Titles really work ~
The 1.2damage is pretty big deal when fighting metal/bone. But i see no issue with that. Those who care about that get all combat titles and an alt if they want to craft, good for devs, more money for them.
14
Suggestions / Re: Mage and PvP
First, this is no whine, but an attempt to do a sort of an analysis/game theory session, sorry, I enjoy doing these, feel free to ignore it :)

In old Darkfall, there were three playstyles - destro, heavy hybrid and mages.
Destro was more or less a gimmick which was extremely effective in group fights when buffed, but one dimensional.
Heavy hybrid was using mainly archery/melee with magic for buffs/utilities.
From what I have heard, mage was not actually that far off from heavy hybrid/destro at the absolute top of the spectrum, and was preferred in group fights, but it was extremely skill dependent and much more expensive than mage. And that was against mage who could:
-stormblast, begone, shrapnel, (battlespike)
-eye rot, pungent mist, confusion, water aoe for blind
-magma, fireball, r90 fire knockup
-melee with only a bit lower potency

Ub3r very logically wanted to break this and allow for more pure and varied playstyles. But the reason why mage was OP was not one or two of the things above, but the whole package.

The current mage does about 50% dps of a heavy he is fighting when with 2h sword in pure bone, even less with robe. He can also play the game "win 10 stats / lose 30 stats game with timed blocking. This means that melee is just deadly for the mage. Unlike this, the old mage had only marginal disadvantage, and could afford to melee much more readily. Thus he could afford to keep close, doing knockup juggling with switches to melee when hearing bow.

Since mage is pretty much screwed in melee, it means he MUST keep out of it. This places immense pressure on him. If the warrior just runs at him while shooting arrows, mage has only one way to react - run away, or get him away. He has begone on 20 second cooldown, and he has shrapnel. Using these on himself costs him free hits, so it is probably better to push away the meleer. But in the meantime, he can not dodge easily, as he needs to run away from meleer due to his pressure of the lose/lose melee situation. To do damage while keeping distance, he needs to jump shoot, which leads to trades of hits at best, with possible backhits. It is not a question of straight running away, which mage surely can, especially downhill on open terrain, but a question of actually fighting the warrior.

When in melee, getting out without help of spell seems extremely dangerous. Old mage could trade few melee hits, double jump out while loading knockup, and then straightline until he heard knocking of arrow. Now, even if you get a bit of separation, there is double step and will be seize. So shrapnel/begone it is, while eating hits.

IMO as long as melee is so one sided and scary, mage needs an additional way how to get out (edit: I have ignored confusion, my bad). This will lead to a necessity of having at least fire or air, maybe even eye rot, or you just die when you get rushed. If they remove shrapnel without a replacement, I do not think the game will be playable. And that is in 1v1, in group fight, especially larger and more chaotic one, not getting stickybacked while wearing "target me" robe will be close to impossible. This will lead to less diversity, as schools that do not have get away utilities will be much less attractive/more situational.

The stuff above was of course regarding robed mage vs warrior; hybrid mage (melee + 1-3 schools, eg. fire/neco or air/necro)  if viable, will have it less loopsided, as he could use more tools (plus free pungent mist->switch to melee) and have less reasons to run at all costs.

This also of course ignores a lot of stuff - leather vs metal, mounted combat viability, closed quarter fights, ease of chasing/getting away, possibility to focus fire, team helping, etc. But in practice, reasonable 1v1 balance is important, or at least is perceived important by many. Noone wants to run or autodie when jumped due to rock paper scissors.

In general I would say that the root issue is the fear of the robed mage of melee. Devs are saying that melee/archery is a single playstyle, that archery itself does not work. But here you have a mage who has no melee at all. But how to solve this (assuming of course it will be a problem needing solving...)?

The only idea I have is a concept of pbaoe knockback spell to get out of melee. It does not improve mage's mobility, doing which would be quite a balance concern, and would push meleer only a short distance (hopefully out of seize range however), so he can continue chasing and using bow. It may be also worth it to buff movement spells for heavier guys, so that it is little less punishing and floppy when committing as meleer,  and to close the gap a bit; currently mages are superchasers, while meleers have 0 escape. IMO stormblast was a great spell, making the game more forgiving, escapes more likely, allowing more jukes, and prolonging fights etc (not talking here about it's negative impact due to bunny hopping). Now fights seems a little bland - as meleer much more commit and win or die, as mage keep as far as possible or get wrecked. If added, I would say the pbaoe knockback should be amongst mage's utilities, so that the playstyles can be somewhat balanced, and interesting schools with fun mechanics could be introduced and used regardless the "holy 3 escape schools".

Also I think double step forward is pretty weird. It is zero skill to execute (easy to macro via autohotkey to be 100% useful), redundant with seize, completely unpredictable (i am out of range, right? Hmm, no bow shots, so I guess I now am in range, so better to turn in and eat some more melee or to hope and risk start eating backhits...).

Anyway, this is all theorycrafting, we need to wait for the changes to settle first, maybe it is all moot and Ub3r has it all fixed...
15
For warrior in leather, 5th title may be considered negligible after weapon archery combo warrior. But for mage, even a single school mage, more titles is always better, as you can stack school combo scholar magnitude quickness for the price of physical penalties that are not relevant to you.