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Topic: Death to traits (Read 997 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Death to traits
Reply #45
Because from what was reported, the issue is in the sustainable easy damage, not the more complex damage.
We nerfed bolts already, now we need to work on aoes and rays. Until we add the better features they need, then buffing leather protection will end up being too strong, or inacurate, after the changes are made.
Question is why you started with bolts ? I don't think that main problem for archers was bolt dps. I may be biased becouse I was using them a lot and using them was my main playstyle, but I hardly see anyone using them now and I personaly switched to r50's. There are now only usefull in combo with fireball/bolt/ray, or for bolting someone in wof. I'm not sure though if that was what you were aiming.
  • Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:40:22 am by Drthelunghar

Re: Death to traits
Reply #46
Mainly because the feedback of bolts being vastly superior to arrows came sooner than the one on the aoes.
They were the highest theoretical dps in the game, higher than melee in some configurations.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: Death to traits
Reply #47
@Rorschach_Greyhead

If you think about all aspects of fighting, then you would see why I have the proposed the nerfs!

Mages melt Leather which is why the nerf to damage and speed is needed, a less nerf is needed to balance Leather. Now with Metal, if you lower the protections by 30%, the DPS damage from Mage will be slightly lower, due to the speed nerf to Mage, but Mage will be able to do 30% more damage in Melee trades!

:P

Wouldn't the better nerf be a buff to leather armor protection vs magic damage since magic seems to do proper damage to other armor sets?

  • Mega
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Death to traits
Reply #48
Now with Metal, if you lower the protections by 30%, the DPS damage from Mage will be slightly lower, due to the speed nerf to Mage, but Mage will be able to do 30% more damage in Melee trades!

:P

Wouldn't the better nerf be a buff to leather armor protection vs magic damage since magic seems to do proper damage to other armor sets?

You seemed to miss the reason above!

Traits need to be lesser so we don't have hard classes!
Mega Monster - Giants

Re: Death to traits
Reply #49
Now with Metal, if you lower the protections by 30%, the DPS damage from Mage will be slightly lower, due to the speed nerf to Mage, but Mage will be able to do 30% more damage in Melee trades!

:P

Wouldn't the better nerf be a buff to leather armor protection vs magic damage since magic seems to do proper damage to other armor sets?

You seemed to miss the reason above!

I did.

I'm afraid that with charged up rays they will become more of a situational spell and mage playstyle will become more about spamming baseline spells.

That's not a bad thing.

Re: Death to traits
Reply #50
Charged up rays is the opposite of "not reducing the current fast pace nature of the game"

Re: Death to traits
Reply #51
Charged up rays is the opposite of "not reducing the current fast pace nature of the game"

They are a bit ridiculous atm
Dunnin Dainstaff - Lux Arcana

Re: Death to traits
Reply #52
@xpiher @Mega
The issue is actually that metal had too high magical protections, which made the root issue invisible to us.
To explain, we have changed the base damage formula to have more front loading, in part to help newer players, but also to give a niche for DoT spells obtained early in the game.
Things like rend, needles, blast, venom, insect swarm and pungent mist, but also all the field aoes that are not toxic rain.

However, it seems the damage drop off was done in a way we didn't expect.
We assumed it was done on the final damage, but it is made at an earlier step, which means the damage formula takes edge hits as "low damage to buff to help the noobs", and increases them.
Metal was fine with it because it has 25+ protections, leather couldn't cope.

You can see it in the videos from the tournament, people are missing r90s by meters and still doing decent damage.

Fixing that issue, not touching magical protection from leather/bones, and nerfing metal magical protections will fix many issues at once.
Leather will gain in survivability, but also robes themselves, increasing the ttk between two full mages into something that lasts a bit longer. And it will allow mages to pressure metal users without being an eternal stalemate.

@Sup Dude @Dunnin
Well, one thing that has been missed by many players from the start of inDev is that rays have a higher cooldown in New Dawn than in DF2012.
People liked being able to use rays every 0.5s, so our goal is to allow this to happen again, but in a less OP way. You could tap the spell to get some extra damage in between actions, made very easy with the queuing system, or you could hold on to the spell until you get a target which would net you a bit more damage at the expense of a higher cooldown.
We would get the best of both worlds, weaving for supplemental damage and fast pace for those that want it, and some kind of rail guns for those that want to do big scary numbers of damage per hits.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • gosti
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Re: Death to traits
Reply #53
You could tap the spell to get some extra damage in between actions, made very easy with the queuing system,

What dmg numbers you want for insta rays after changes?
Also remember about second ary effects of dragonbreath and impale - the blind. Is it going to be addressed somehow?

Re: Death to traits
Reply #54
We aren't yet doing the exact damage ratios, but it needs to be high enough to be meaningful against the average armor and still somewhat usable against higher end armor.
For spell effects and other secondary effects like blinds or displacement effects, we would like all of them to move to a solution that is in proportion of magnitude.
That way, you know what's coming towards you without having to read the system chat, and it will help to realize the "hidden" values of an enemy character, like intensify, mastery or titles.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • Raap
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Death to traits
Reply #55
On balance of metal: It took 4 of us about 10 minutes to kill Ninogan in a full infernal+shield and high enchant bag. Granted we were mostly using r50 weapons, but the fact that we literally could not damage him (2.8 arrow damage in the back while shield equipped) was just terrible. It was probably the most frustrating fight I've been part of in ND so far. (Edit: note we have no maxed characters.)

We ended up killing him, after we made him run out of stamina. So yeah, metal is extremely powerful, but shields even more so, there is no reason shields should have arrow/piercing protections.

Edit: posted in the wrong topic, but I guess it doesn't matter.
  • Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:54:28 am by Raap
Incidentally, this bug gave us a lead to fix [another bug] so it is possible something positive comes out of it.

Raap - Uprising

Re: Death to traits
Reply #56
Quote
there is no reason shields should have arrow/piercing protections
agree

Re: Death to traits
Reply #57
Quote
there is no reason shields should have arrow/piercing protections
agree

Wait what?

Ofcourse they should

Just because metal protectionz are fucked atm don't back peddle on the improvements made towards making one hand and shield main viable

Re: Death to traits
Reply #58
Quote
there is no reason shields should have arrow/piercing protections
agree

Wait what?

Ofcourse they should

Just because metal protectionz are fucked atm don't back peddle on the improvements made towards making one hand and shield main viable



!!!
Rorschach MiM

Retired:  Rorschach Greyhead / Marquez VonHinten

Re: Death to traits
Reply #59
Quote
there is no reason shields should have arrow/piercing protections
agree

Wait what?

Ofcourse they should

Just because metal protectionz are fucked atm don't back peddle on the improvements made towards making one hand and shield main viable



!!!

Shield should work when it is successfully used to block. Not all the time. Another stupid, stupid change.
Have Ub3r considered servers at the center of the Earth? That would be the fairest for everyone
would not be fair...Wildnothing would have a big ping advantage playing from Hell