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Topic: shrink the game world (Read 1002 times) previous topic - next topic

  • nubnax
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Re: shrink the game world
Reply #45
you're constantly negative, can't accept others arguments and don't see the obvious features that have been implemented for non-pvpers. there really is no point in engaging in a conversation with you. as i said almost a year ago you either lash out with personal attacks or only concentrate single points taken out of context to distort the original meaning to suit you.

at least you and your group of downer friends are good with catchy terms you keep repeating over and over again.
  • Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:02:28 am by nubnax
Bala Eregi - SG of Pickaxe Inc

  • gosti
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Re: shrink the game world
Reply #46
Facepalm. Keep repeating guys how dnd GOALS are different, how ub3rgames WANTS to cater to different audience. Fucking yes men. Give me anything they've done that actually achieves that. And don't link me their quotes. Show me in game mechanics.

There is ZERO endgame content for nonpvp players. ZERO.

But to stay on the topic - world actually is too small for nonpvp players to have any chance. Even if someone will be that bored to play a game that offers him nothing in terms of endgame and only gives him a chance to provide for people that will participate in it (that mostly will have everything already and won't need his service), he will encounter pvp oriented players everywhere and lose every encounter. He will be unable to compete with them on any field.

This is fucking indev. Work in progress, they can't implement everything at once. Is it that hard to understand?

The pace of progress is another thing though.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #47
Facepalm. Keep repeating guys how dnd GOALS are different, how ub3rgames WANTS to cater to different audience. Fucking yes men. Give me anything they've done that actually achieves that. And don't link me their quotes. Show me in game mechanics.

There is ZERO endgame content for nonpvp players. ZERO.

But to stay on the topic - world actually is too small for nonpvp players to have any chance. Even if someone will be that bored to play a game that offers him nothing in terms of endgame and only gives him a chance to provide for people that will participate in it (that mostly will have everything already and won't need his service), he will encounter pvp oriented players everywhere and lose every encounter. He will be unable to compete with them on any field.

This is fucking indev. Work in progress, they can't implement everything at once. Is it that hard to understand?

The pace of progress is another thing though.

The only reason they didn't launch 3 months ago, was due to marketing department putting them on hold because of Albion. They can add the content any time they want, there's no problem with the pace, the timing is more important!

Any time now, any time!
"Eilis Traee" - Uprising. Clan Crafter and Public Relations.
However, you have to take into account why we are introducing local banking.
In New Dawn, its main purpose is to be a convenience feature.
"Things just got worse."

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #48
This is fucking indev. Work in progress, they can't implement everything at once. Is it that hard to understand?

The pace of progress is another thing though.
Actually when I'm talking about there being zero endgame content for nonpvp players I'm talking about what we have now AND their future plans / roadmap. Any ENDGAME content for nonpvp players in your mind?

Also mechanics introduced already or not changed still (with no plans of being changed) show that they rather remove non-pvp playstyle potentials, while you guys keep talking of how they cater to different audiences. Show me.

Here is what I'm talking about - from the top of my head:
- introduction of upkeep payment in non-tradable mp instead of tradable gold is removing possibility of building economy based empires. Also makes pvp oriented clans not only do themselves what they could depend on others (on pve oriented clans for example) but also FORCES them to compete on the same fields with non_pvp oriented players. We all know how this will end.
- localization of high end gear resources only - this makes non-pvp oriented players completely unable to participate in this content. These resources will be controlled and traded by top pvp oriented clans. They probably would not even wanted to gather/sell basic resources but end game gear will always attract them. While basic resources will be accesible to anyone anywhere thus non_pvp players will have not much to offer.
- movement skills - pvp players are much more proficient at them. PvP players are faster than mounts, faster than ships. Here goes trading in general or gathering in remote locations.
  • Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:07:08 pm by wildNothing

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #49
You know the difference between the pvpers and the non pvpers?

The non pvpers quit a long time ago. Ditch the pvpers and df honestly has nothing going for it.

I was telling my friend the other day I'm kidna waiting for DnD to come out and he pretty much had nothing good to say about darkfall. "Everything feels pointless". Game has a junk gathering system. Junk runescape tier crafting. Low end pve. Bad graphics. Very unimerssive compared to the other sandboxes I've played.

Not really trying to trash the game but honestly darkfall is far past its time. Its going to take a lot to get all the pve'ers and traders and stuff to come play it without killing all the pvp and the entire core of darkfall. And even if you kill that the non pvpers will want to play the pve'ers will just go play something else anyway.
You dont seem to understand  what is supposedly going on here, with whole DND thing. Yes they left, yes the game was horribly underdeveloped any other direction other than pvp(if even that). And thats why we have DND, to change all that, your pvp-ers can still pvp. Your seemingly promoted quick pvp action affair, where you jump in with very little prior planning and preparation will lead to extinction in few months.

Because, SURPRISE, there are very good, arguably better games out there for that too.

I seriously think any mmo nowdays, needs a damn wide foundation it has been built on, to even have any success at all, otherwise all we really will have going, are like you yourself stated, those odd 2k players that went to check out ROA, considerable % of which were never going to stay anyway. That is not enough. Bones need flesh around them, DND needs those traders, crafters, farmers( if we absolutely must use these labels really).

This isnt anything revolutionary im cooking up on spot here, most developers probably are aware of all this.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #50
You dont seem to understand  what is supposedly going on here, with whole DND thing.
Exactly - supposedly. Very good observation.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #51
I like noobs and skillers. Being a pvper doesnt mean you hate non pvpers. I know very well that the game needs them to survive. Heres the problem.

Dnd hasnt actually stated anything that makes me think all of a sudden the game is going to retain nubs and skillers and haev a great pop. The difference is it prob wont retain people like me either and will end up possibly worse then RoA (which, is sucking).

Things lie ka bigger world so skillers dont get dunked is just a bad bandaid fix. If darkfall got fixed at the core you wouldnt need a giant world so you cant find nubs to keep the mfrom quitting.

The gameplay needs to be changed so that getting away as a nub might actually be possible. And so that people might not just ride around and slaughter nubs cuz they haev something better to fight over. And maybe actually teach the nubs how to play the game or have game mechanics that make sense so they can figure it out. Currently nubs just get told in help chat to "join a guild and duel till ur gear breaks then duel more" to get good. Thats bull. No game should you ever need to duel that much to not get completely dunked by everyone you meet.

My first open pvp game was actually the most hardcore one I ever played. Was perma death full random gen world sandbox. And somehow pulled off like 200 players on at a time. The world was big but obviously a game like that really needs it. But then the devs ruined it to make it more nub friendly. The game isnt doing any better the difference is it might aswell not even be open pvp because trying to be anything close to a pvper in it sucks and is a waste of time.

And I'm only leaving my mini essays on the forums cuz I want a fun darkfall game that all darkfall players and open pvp sandbox players can play and have fun and not get bored and unsub. Not some darkfall for skillers that pvpers will find boring(possibly how some people want DnD?) or failed wanabe arena joke darkfall attempt (RoA lol)... My first darkfall experience was DnD f2p trial, id love if the game actually worked out. But spending tons of time fixing (possibly) the wrong problems......

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #52
The problem is not related to the world. If anything, as said both by us and players, it would need to be larger to function best.

Historically, Darkfall has had a decent appeal. We've even seen it during InDev where, surprisingly, a lot of new players came and remained despite this being a period of time where there is little expected persistence.
The real issues started mid-game for most, when their honey moon period ended due to the players learning enough about the game to be discouraged:
- Meaningless alignment system.
- High gear bag complexity and lack of an economy to support it.
- Lack of personal choices regarding character development.

Having a larger world contributes to solving the two first points.
It helps make racial raiding an organized act with clear purpose, predictability and a possibility of retaliation, and it gives the necessary barrier to entry for local banking to function and strengthen the economy.

For the rest, most of our changes have been targeted at allowing choices to be made.
We still have work to do on that front, most notably titles, which will allow various playstyles but also limit how much players can actually be self sufficient. Combined with increased localization and the means to put customers and crafters in touch, and you get a world with a lot more convenience thanks to, in part, its size.

In conclusion:
The size of the world, or similarly the length of player progression, have both been scapegoats for the real issues of Darkfall.
These are two sources of retention IF given the proper framework to function.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #53
Actually when I'm talking about there being zero endgame content for nonpvp players I'm talking about what we have now AND their future plans / roadmap. Any ENDGAME content for nonpvp players in your mind?

PvP-ers, esp. skilled ones, will min-max any gameplay systems in weeks, if not days - even if those systems were designed for non-PvP players. Only if the game will be able to retain general population (incl. "wannabe PvP-ers") - PvP-ers will stick around.

On the other hand - non-PvP-ers really don't have to duel for hours - with a little bit coordination - group of 4-5 is easily able to defeat solo PK.

DF real end-game was always sieges, sea towers and politics. Any other kind of end-game (e.g. small scale top level open world PvP) cannot sustain the game, or population by itself.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #54

Having a larger world contributes to solving the two first points.
It helps make racial raiding an organized act with clear purpose, predictability and a possibility of retaliation, and it gives the necessary barrier to entry for local banking to function and strengthen the economy.


In conclusion:
The size of the world, or similarly the length of player progression, have both been scapegoats for the real issues of Darkfall.
These are two sources of retention IF given the proper framework to function.
I think you might be surprised at how lazy hardcore gamers have become. Honestly local banking and no instant travel might be enough to stop a large amount of the nub slaughter. Your random descent pvpers who are bored might not take 30 mins to ride to like the human capitol to ride around and look for pointless nubs to kill, so they can haev to ride back after to get back to their bank or to do anything.

Obviously there will be some who will just camp starter areas because thats their playstyle, but overall the nub slaughter will prob go down a lot. And the nub killers will be very poorly kitted most likely because they cant buy gear or craft or anything out of the red bank wanabe towns.

Its much harder then before at least where you could runestone in, kill some nubs, teleport back to bindstone. Ez kills. Now it still takes time and effort to go do. When they could og ride to a hotspot or enemy holding or something instead,

And I think titles are actually one of the most important parts of DnD. In RoA one of the biggest complaint from new players was the lack of build diversity. So many players were forced into a playstyle they didnt want, and honestly a lot of players prob left RoA due to that issue they never fixed. It was one of my factors for leaving.

If the rest of the game is good a noob can handle getting dunked a lot before they quit. But if they think the game is bad anyway they have no reason to want to stay. Good core mechanics like titles and good tutorials to help them understand the game and how to not get trashed when they get jumped would go a very long way for player retention.
  • Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 06:28:31 pm by bobthecat

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #55
We agree on titles and that feeling of "if the game is good enough".
Anyone that tries Darkfall will embrace open world PvP, full loot and the concept of negative sum. They are a selling points.
They will even have tolerance for a confusing start as most will view it as discovering a new game and that's an enjoyable process for them. The unknown and its possibilities are exciting.
What new players weren't ready to deal with were the apparent flaws that made the efforts not worth it long term.

From our experience, feedback received and players observed/interrogated, the lack of possible choice was a big deterrent, even to players that enjoyed the PvE and the thrill that came with the setting it took place in.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

Re: shrink the game world
Reply #56
We agree on titles and that feeling of "if the game is good enough".
Anyone that tries Darkfall will embrace open world PvP, full loot and the concept of negative sum. They are a selling points.
They will even have tolerance for a confusing start as most will view it as discovering a new game and that's an enjoyable process for them. The unknown and its possibilities are exciting.
What new players weren't ready to deal with were the apparent flaws that made the efforts not worth it long term.

From our experience, feedback received and players observed/interrogated, the lack of possible choice was a big deterrent, even to players that enjoyed the PvE and the thrill that came with the setting it took place in.

It still is, ive had many of our clan members say they arent that interested yet because combat is still too DFO where you have to learn everything to be competitive. A lot of people arent playing not because its an indev, but because the game hasnt changed enough yet.
Mycke Soulslayer - Supreme General: Rastalfarian - An all Alfar clan of all play styles in all time zones, welcoming new and vet players alike.