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Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Greetings. this evening we're discussing our next couple patches and asking some feedback from the community regarding our meditation improvements.
Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Enjoy, and please discuss.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • Mycke
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #1
I am trying to parse this out

"Heals, debuffs, self buffs, buff others and utility spells have all been assigned to the school skill or the sub-skill unlocked just before it."

Does that mean a buff that would be acquired at school skill 50 would be directly linked to mana efficiency for that school since its the sub skill received at 50?
Mycke Soulslayer - Supreme General: Rastalfarian - An all Alfar clan of all play styles in all time zones, welcoming new and vet players alike.

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #2
@Mycke
Correct.
The idea is to not have spells get unlocked straight at high level but to have all new spells follow a progression curve.
Keep in mind that spells will be made linear in progression over the course of the next few weeks. Which means that the spells becoming useful only at 75 will become useful much sooner.

We'll also be reviewing subskills leveling curves. and of course, if you had one of these spells already leveled above the subskill it will depend on, it won't revert back, it will just wait to be caught up with by the subskill before raising again.
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • Mycke
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #3
@Mycke
Correct.
The idea is to not have spells get unlocked straight at high level but to have all new spells follow a progression curve.
Keep in mind that spells will be made linear in progression over the course of the next few weeks. Which means that the spells becoming useful only at 75 will become useful much sooner.

We'll also be reviewing subskills leveling curves. and of course, if you had one of these spells already leveled above the subskill it will depend on, it won't revert back, it will just wait to be caught up with by the subskill before raising again.

That is a very interesting system making casting a buff/heals/etc to raise itself no better than just using the attack for that school to farm mobs and removing any need to cast these kinds of spells when not needed just to raise them.

I think I like this idea a lot.

edit: Does this include transfers?
  • Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 01:12:31 am by Mycke
Mycke Soulslayer - Supreme General: Rastalfarian - An all Alfar clan of all play styles in all time zones, welcoming new and vet players alike.

  • Zerk
  • [*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #4
perhaps give a list of affected spells so players don't waste time levelling a spell that will soon have it's level made redundant (utilities is a very broad term, are we talking begone, eye rot, storm blast, confusion, ice storm?)

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #5
Glad to see you made a discussion thread!

Good example of my Air Magic right now: - 56 Quicken Spells - 63 Mana Efficiency  - 65 Durable spells

Agility is level 1 air, so this will come under the durable spells level, I'm currently 12.01 Agility this will now be 65.
Arrow Shield is level 1 so refer to the above.
Guiding wind is 30 this will come under mana efficiency level, I'm currently 9.09 this will now be 63.
Arrow Ward is 40 this will come under mana efficiency level, I'm currently 7.57 arrow ward this will now be 63.
Storm Blast and Come Hither learned at 70 and 60,this will come under quick spells level, I'm 22.64 stormblast and 23.12 come hither, these will both now be 56.

This looks great!

Bad Example: Arcane level 64.60 - Don't have quicken spells.

WOF is level 50 so it comes under quicken spells, WOF will go from 44.04 to 1.

I think this will be a great change after they remove the 25 step power gap on spells. making them not have to be 75 to be useful.


EDIT: The above is wrong, spells before 25 are school, 25-49 are durable, so on.
  • Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 02:11:00 am by rawrgasm

www.twitch.tv/rawrgasmtv
Rawr Gasm - SG of Giants


Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #6
perhaps give a list of affected spells so players don't waste time levelling a spell that will soon have it's level made redundant (utilities is a very broad term, are we talking begone, eye rot, storm blast, confusion, ice storm?)

AFAIK everything that doesn't do damage / heal, also shrapnel not counted as utility.

www.twitch.tv/rawrgasmtv
Rawr Gasm - SG of Giants


Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #7
Glad to see you made a discussion thread!

Good example of my Air Magic right now: - 56 Quicken Spells - 63 Mana Efficiency  - 65 Durable spells

Agility is level 1 air, so this will come under the durable spells level, I'm currently 12.01 Agility this will now be 65.
Arrow Shield is level 1 so refer to the above.


I don't think this is correct. Any spell you get before 25 Spell School level will use the School level. And spell you get from 25 skill to 49.99 will use the level 25 sub skill. 50 -74.99 will use the level 50 sub school etc etc.

That is how I read it anyway.

Very interesting change. I'm looking forward to watching RoA boards have a meltdown over it.

lulz
  • Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 01:39:37 am by Society Puppet

  • Mycke
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #8
I have been thinking about unburden and adept and think they can be used almost as is, because unburden is a short duration high unburdening and adept is a long duration low unburdening, so the only thing I would do is make adept express its effect in encumberance removed and maybe extend its duration some. So you cast unburden before a quick succession of spells (like buffing up) and then cast adept more for a general combat situation where you cant recast unburden every 30 seconds.
  • Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 01:43:06 am by Mycke
Mycke Soulslayer - Supreme General: Rastalfarian - An all Alfar clan of all play styles in all time zones, welcoming new and vet players alike.

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #9
Honestly I don't even know why the sub skills exist. All they are is a chance for someone to forget to buy them and end up behind for no reason.

Mana efficiency, duration, intensity and quickness should all go up with the school level, there really is no reason for sub skills.

I like the idea of non offensive spells going up with the level of the school so long as they scale appropriately.

For instance if I get Stoneskin when I get to level 50 Earth magic, my Stoneskin should be skill lvl 0, when I get to Earth magic 75, my Stoneskin would be 50, and when I get Earth magic 100 my Stoneskin would be 100 as well.

Another example Heal self acquired at Lesser magic 0 would be 0 and would scale equally with the magic school all the way to 100.

A final example, Unburden purchased at lvl 25 Greater magic would be level 0. At greater magic lvl 50 Unburden would be 33.33, at Greater magic 75 Unburden would be 66.66 and finally at Greater magic 100 Unburden would also be at 100.

This not only would simplify the process of leveling spells, it would also tie in well with a front loaded system that gives the most power for a spell in it's first half of skill level. It would also encourage players to fully develop a magic school.

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #10
What if Adept guarenteed the next spell to cast at full speed and full effect with 0 penalty. Could be used as a preemptive Tongue Rot counter.

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #11
@Mycke
Yes, all 3 transfers will be based on the school level.
Even the one unlocked at 30, because transfers are too important to have at equal levels.

@rawrgasm
As others have said, WoF depends on mana efficiency.
And spells don't revert, they will just wait for the subskill to catch up with them before starting to raise again.

@Zerk
Anything that doesn't do damage is counted as pure utility. It will be mainly confusion and movement abilities at the exception of shrapnel. Smoke signal and beacon are utilities as well.

@Norbit
Well, many of the effects of the subskills are now bundled in the school.
Now they will serve as you suggested, to scale spell levels in addition of being a continuation of the school's progression.

@Mycke @Society Puppet
For Adept, we had an excellent suggestion from @Aristos Giannes and it is so far the better idea we've seen. We're still open for more, but the idea is to make adept a temporary "support mode go!" spell, where all your buffs and heals become much more potent, at the expense of lower damage and lower protections.
It could save a friendly getting focus fired, or if you fail to capitalize, it would get you killed.

This fits perfectly with the notion of the Spellchanting school, with the signature spell being sacrifice, where you give up some of your life for an ally.

And what about offensive abilities?
Are you for adding it to meditation, or against it?
The Darkfall: New Dawn Dev Team.

  • GrimmyB
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #12

Hi just wondering where I collect my medal for great suggestions?
Taken the liberty of drawing up a prototype
ALBUS TUMBLEWICHE
ASGRIM BLACKFORGE
GIANTS
(.@^ SNAILPARTY ^@.) - Forever in our hearts.
what are you saying? I had a mouse problem. everything else is your speculation

Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #13
I think all the main skills and schools should be added eg: Greatswords, Fire, Necromancy, Swords. But I don't think any subskills, spells or weaponskills (like whirlwind) should be. This way everything can be unlocked at the base through meditating, but still leaves ingame goals/grind. For the most part they're all huge upgrades just unlocking them.  Granted with your new system heals/buffs/whatnots gained before school lvl 25 will still benefit, but they were an issue that needed change.

  • Mycke
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Discussion: Concluding performances and the war on macroing
Reply #14
@Mycke
Yes, all 3 transfers will be based on the school level.
Even the one unlocked at 30, because transfers are too important to have at equal levels.

@Mycke @Society Puppet
For Adept, we had an excellent suggestion from @Aristos Giannes and it is so far the better idea we've seen. We're still open for more, but the idea is to make adept a temporary "support mode go!" spell, where all your buffs and heals become much more potent, at the expense of lower damage and lower protections.
It could save a friendly getting focus fired, or if you fail to capitalize, it would get you killed.

This fits perfectly with the notion of the Spellchanting school, with the signature spell being sacrifice, where you give up some of your life for an ally.

And what about offensive abilities?
Are you for adding it to meditation, or against it?

Nice I like the transfers linked to school they are so slow naturally and like you say too important and fundamental to the game. Also I like Aristos idea as well totally fits the flavor of the school.

As far as meditating offensive spells, before these changes I would have been more against it, but now just leveling a spell without the gains to sub skills makes it less valuable so doing it in game will be far more beneficial, and thus I see no problem if someone wants to meditate it. I see people using it to level a spell they dont use a lot but want to have on par with there standard spells when they do use it (like ones with long cds), and this way they wont have to grind it.
  • Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 02:29:47 am by Mycke
Mycke Soulslayer - Supreme General: Rastalfarian - An all Alfar clan of all play styles in all time zones, welcoming new and vet players alike.